[Bladesuit]

I was wondering if their "feel no pain rule" also ignore Gauss weapon special rule and rending weapons special rule. I have'nt look if this subject is a re-post and I'm sorry if it is the case.

[alcibiates]

I would think that it would indeed ignore it, because you are still only inflicting a wound, and I believe the rule is worded so that you essentially can't be wounded by shooting, so a gauss weapons is still a shooting weapon.

[ShadowDeth]

This is an unbelievably easy mechanic to figure out. Is it strength 6 or is it not strength 6.

[Bladesuit]

I figured out that mechanic, I'M not stupid ... it is simply that Gauss weapons have a special rule making them ignore Thoughness value anyway so I wanted to know ....

[Lomendil]

Grotesques can take wounds from Sniper Rifle fire. Although they don't have a Strength value, I think it is enough to go on - so I'd say that Gauss flayers can only cause wounds using their special rules, not for normal hits.

[ShadowDeth]

Originally Posted by Lomendil

Grotesques can take wounds from Sniper Rifle fire. Although they don't have a Strength value, I think it is enough to go on - so I'd say that Gauss flayers can only cause wounds using their special rules, not for normal hits.

This isn't true. Grotesques can only be damaged by attacks that are strength 6 or greater. Gauss flayers also will not damage grotesques. They have a mechanic to ignore *toughness* when calculating applied wounds, not the grotesque special rule. You can apply all the wounds you wish, and then they are subsequentially ignored.

Anything can wound a grotesque, if you want to get anal about it. The issue is that the feel no pain mechanic, which has not been updated to align with the universal special rule, essentially ignores any wounds that will not cause instant death.

If you really wanted to argue your point to death, I would submit that you could actually wound with any weapon you like - You just will not be able to cause any casualties. The bottom line is that these weapons are not strength 6 or greater, and as a result will not actually cause damage to models.

The grot rules read "They ignore shooting hits from weapons not at least twice their toughness....". The ignore bit can be taken both ways, but with the same result. No wounds will be applied.


The flowchart of shooting in this game is:

Hit
Wound <-Gauss, Rending, Sniper rules fall in this category
Wound Resolution <- Saving throws, special mechanics, the feel no pain rule

[Bladesuit]

Well, actually I though that the answer would be in fluff here, which is not my specialty, but I'll try.

Gauss weapons ignore toughness value by the fact that they don't make "feel pain", but strip down their target to a molecular level (which means desintegrated). So whatever is the grotesque ability to "feel no pain", here it is not a matter of damage, it is a matter of molecular discomposition and so, whatever the thougness is (even thougness 8, which ignore str4 hits normally get wounded so .... it is not a matter of pain, but of discomposition here) the target don't even get a wound, he simply deasapear ...

Personnally I think that gauss ignore feel no pain grotesque rule and please, use a nicer language in your next posts.

Originally Posted by ShadowDeth

This is an unbelievably easy mechanic to figure out. Is it strength 6 or is it not strength 6.* **anal*

quite unuseful comments ...

[ShadowDeth]

Originally Posted by Bladesuit

Well, actually I though that the answer would be in fluff here, which is not my specialty, but I'll try.

Gauss weapons ignore toughness value by the fact that they don't make "feel pain", but strip down their target to a molecular level (which means desintegrated). So whatever is the grotesque ability to "feel no pain", here it is not a matter of damage, it is a matter of molecular discomposition and so, whatever the thougness is (even thougness 8, which ignore str4 hits normally get wounded so .... it is not a matter of pain, but of discomposition here) the target don't even get a wound, he simply deasapear ...

Personnally I think that gauss ignore feel no pain grotesque rule and please, use a nicer language in your next posts.

quite unuseful comments ...

Well first of all it's "toughness", not thoughness. Secondly, fluff has no place when figuring out rules. If it did it would open up a lot more issues than whether or not certain weapons ignored a never used unit's special ability.

You're welcome to argue whatever side of the discussion you think is right, but please offer up facts or gameplay logic instead of why you think the fluff is condusive to your view. Saying "the weapon is meant to" blah blah doesn't gain any ground in figuring out if the rules actually work one way or another.

[alcibiates]

Fluff plays no role in rules, I'm sorry. If it did, then Dark Lances would destroy anything, as they are essentially shooting antimatter under a different name. Nothing stops antimatter, period. A monolith would be gone as soon as we got a good enough roll to hit it. Whenever you are trying to use something as a rule basis, check every possible way for it to be false, only then can it be true.

I'm with Shadow on this one, they can't be wounded by Gauss weapons, the rule ignores any wound that would be placed upon the unit.

[Bladesuit]

Actually, I'm happy to know that grostesque can't be killed by Gauss weapon rules, as Necrons can only rely on only 2 weapons to kill them (which are expensives weapons).

About the fluff isn't making the rules things, well, this has to be discussed somewhere else.

My positive point of why Gauss weapons should be able to score wounds to Groteque is because it ignore target toughness. Models with toughness 10 can be wounded by a Gauss weapon even if he is normally immune to such puny strenght. To my eyes this could be compared to the fact that when the Gauss weapon special rule apply, it wounds anything ...

But if I'm wrong on that, I'm happy because this means that Grotesques are Necrons worse Nightmareszszs.

No need to get angry about it.

If the answer is : Apply the rule as it is written, so be it ! (which means Grotesque are immune to any str 5 and lower shots)