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Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?
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Old 13 May 2010, 11:42   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

At the risk of destroying the eldar fluff so badly that I create a rift in warpspace, I have considered taking both Yriel and Eldrad Ulthran in the same army. Believe it or not, this is more for aesthetic than power gaming reasons.

What happened was this: I have been planning to get Yriel (because the model is so awesome) for a while. I also wanted a farseer in my army, and I planned on converting him to ride a jetbike. I didn't like the look of the Eldrad model in the codex, but when it came up cheap on ebay I figured it would be as good as any other farseer for chopping up and sticking on a bike. When the model actually arrived, however, I suddenly gained a whole lot more respect for whoever sculpted it. It's a brilliant model and I am now keen to field it in my army (of course, the stat line is impressive as well).

Now I am in a bit of a pickle. I'm not much of a fluff-man, but from what the latest codex says it seems pretty certain that Eldrad is currently dead, and I presume that back when he was alive Yriel was still running around as a pirate or something (he definitely hadn't acquired the spear of twilight). However, I love both the models and I want to field them together.

What do you guys think about this? I'm mostly after fluffy solutions, but any advice gaming-wise would also be appreciated. Feel free to suggest any alternate time streams, reincarnations, or whatever. I am going for a brown and white (like Biel-tan, but brown not green) colour scheme for my army, if that's any help.

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Old 13 May 2010, 16:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?


First of I'm kind of a fluff guy so I really hate to see them both in an army. Every armylist with both I just skip. Sure it may be a good combo and such but there is no fluff backing this. The only reasoning that comes close to them fighting together is when his raiders accidentally crossed paths with Eldrad.

Now you could use both MODELS and be perfectly safe. You can switch either of their rules for the standard Farseer/Autarch rules. Now you're still using the cool models but not the fluff and rules behind the other models.

I'm sure some will say it's perfectly OK as it's just a game and your army and such, just don't make the hole in the warp to large ;D . But nobody can really stop you from using both, as I've seen other Special characters being used together that don't mix well either.

Greetz
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Old 13 May 2010, 16:49   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

Or: Option C

Create your own craftworld, create 2 Heroes and make them Count-As.

So in your army it's not Eldrad and Yriel but Whatisface and Thatdude who are like Eldrad and Yriel rule-wise but differnet Backstory.
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Old 13 May 2010, 18:05   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

As Boneguard said, just rename them. It's how GW reccomend we deal with Space Marine characters, why not Eldar?

Competitively-speaking though, I wouldn't run both of them in one list. Eldar are a small, expensive, elite army as-is - putting so many points in your HQ slots isn't going to help.
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Old 14 May 2010, 03:51   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

Thankyou very much guys. This has helped a lot. I am also tempted to convert Yriel a little as well as rename him, perhaps just make him a regular exarch. If the counts-as-Eldrad turns out to be overkill in the magic department I could probably demote him to a regular farseer as well.
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Old 14 May 2010, 20:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

Having your fluff actually be that Eldrad and Yriel are fighting in some random battle together would be rather silly and more or less unjustifiable. Using counts-as to create your own fluff and characters while still having a competitive edge, not such a big deal. Like Boneguard pointed out, that's more or less the de facto position of GW in the newer codices.
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Old 15 May 2010, 04:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

I actually don't think it's that powerful of a combo. Honestly having Eldrad in addition to a regular farseer (particularly on a jetbike) is rather a great deal more powerful. Yriel is a GOOD character, but he's not nearly over powered. He's 155 points for a guy who is toughness 3 with a 4+ invulnerable save. A single strength 6 hit can see this guy easily off the table. Additionally his best ability can really only be used if he's locked in close combat alone. If he's in a unit when he does his strength 6 blast ability then he'll kill friendly units as well as enemy units. It's bad stuff.

Granted Eldrad makes EVERYTHING better... but taking a decent HQ (yriel) with an incredibly over powered one (Eldrad) it really only makes the decent one slightly more decent.
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Old 15 May 2010, 04:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

Jedibean... it is actually really easy to use Yriel, and he is considered one of the stronger options...

Picture this: Wave serpent with Yriel and a squad of avengers, they get out, yriel seperates. Avengers shoot (say a squad of 30 orks) kill heaps, yriel charges alone. Orks mob around (defenders react) unleash the eyes of wrath. Orks will most likely lose due to combat resolution... ytriel has just made his points back...

Or

Put him in a council on foot. Everyone has re0rollable Inv saves, can take injuries on the warlocks, and releasing the eye of wrath doesn't hurt much becase every model has a 75% chance of passing the save

Or

Foot slogging squad of 10 wraithguard with an enhance/conceal spirit seer and eldrad casting fortune and doom. The squad now has formidable CC, as well as high toughness from shooting attacks (T6 with re-rollable 3+ saves or 5+ cover).

If you are running Yriel as a loner for an entire game, you are a moron... keep him with a squad and he will rip people a new anus!
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Old 15 May 2010, 15:45   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

I certainly was not suggesting running him alone for the entire game. But if you've suffered enough strength 6 hits then shooting does eventually have to get allocated to your independent characters. And in close combat attacks can be directed at your independent characters immidiately. Sure you can use a wave serpent, a unit of dire avengers AND Yriel to get rid of a mob of orks. But at that point you're looking at 450 worth of Eldar to get rid of 180 points worth of orks. It's not a bad idea, but it's nothing amazing.

He's a good character, but there are certainly better.
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Old 30 May 2010, 05:23   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Eldrad and Yriel - in the same army?

I run 'Prince Balthasar' and 'Farseer Nebeker' in my Elysian Craftworld.

As for Yriel I think he is a beast and well worth his points cost. He has an excellent weapon that is very killy, gives you your reserve bonus (important with reserve lists) and has the bonus attack from the eye that can wipe an entire marine squad, especially if you team it up with Doom.

Eldrad is better than a foot farseer because again, for a few points more you get a better invul, an extra power, powerweapon and the ability to redeploy. A normal farseer will do great for you until you run into SW or nids and you can't fortune your seer council. Then they die. In a tourny setting you pretty much gotta take Eldrad to keep up with the Joneses.

Once I get my bike seer council converted I will use a regular autarch and farseer since the other two can't take a bike.

It also depends on the points value. I think if you are playing 1750 or more it is viable. If you are playing 1500 or less taking both is cost prohibitive.
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