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A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 18:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

As with many of my minis, I have randomly acquired a vyper, along with some jetbikes, to add them into my existing force. Now looking at the nuts and bolts of the thing makes for a confusing choice of vehicle. Without further banter here's the basic force (quite unorthodox).

1 Farseer with 'expected' wargear, guide doom. goes with...

Guardians, 10 with a warlock that has embolden, and toting a EML, all in a TLBL waveserpent, starengines, spirit stones (hasn't failed me yet!)

Guardians as above, no bus or farseer though.

5 Dire avengers, shooty type

**Have but have not tried 5 wraithguard and warlock**

5 pathfinders, Falcon HF, SS, EML, Fire Prism HF SS, War Walker 2xEML.

And now the addition of a Vyper.

Personally, I somewhat commonly run into situations where the shooting phase is wrapping up and there's this ONE THING on the board that is clinging to a wound in defiance. I envision using the Vyper to KillSteal assist in this matter by semi-effectively dealing the final blow. The weapon I think of is the Starcannon; no saves, 1 hit, and highish S to get that wound in. The Vyper can hunt in tandem with with Falcon, and use it as cover against particularly nasty AT.

The other role is that of a distraction of sorts. Turbo into the fray, attract fire away from Falcon and Fire Prism, armed with scatter laser and Shuiricannon (or double shiuricannon given its life expectancy), fear of rate of fire will force some kind of retaliation. Although that retaliation could kill it...

Things NOT to consider. I have a plethora of krak missile equivalents, another EML wouldn't be needed. A brightlance on this guy is far too inaccurate, that's why its on the bus. All vehicle upgrades on Vypers seem like a vast mis-allocation of resources, I mean the holofields on my MBT are questionable, on a Vyper would be foolish.

I don't see ANY vipers locally, and IIRC none on army lists I've seen online. So, what say you.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 18:22   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

Best use I've ever seen from Vyper's is as rear line support units. They have range and mobility, so they are best off keeping well back and moving into LOS of the one target they are shooting at.


The bright lance is nice for vehicles, but with BS3 its a little bit hit or miss. The starcannon is a good choice for the supporting of other units.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 18:41   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

I haven't used it yet either but I was thinking of using it as a troop killer. use it flank enemies and use it in tandem with squads. I'd put either a S. CAnnon on it or I think better would be Scatter Laser. Use it's range to stay way out of range of small arms and stay hidden from heavy if terrain allows.

If it was cheeper I'd use a squadron with bright lances and make it anti-tank because I could use the speed to flank most enemy tanks. but I dont' want to pay so much for something that's likely to miss.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 18:43   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestialDragonKing
I haven't used it yet either but I was thinking of using it as a troop killer. use it flank enemies and use it in tandem with squads. I'd put either a S. CAnnon on it or I think better would be Scatter Laser. Use it's range to stay way out of range of small arms and stay hidden from heavy if terrain allows.

If it was cheeper I'd use a squadron with bright lances and make it anti-tank because I could use the speed to flank most enemy tanks. but I dont' want to pay so much for something that's likely to miss.
For troop killers war walkers are much better.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 19:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sau1us
I don't see ANY vipers locally, and IIRC none on army lists I've seen online. So, what say you.
My corsairs have occasionally used 2 Vypers as fire support for our offensive... Pinning enemy units (either literally, or through mere threat) or destroying the cumbersome vehicles they shelter in.

I have found they are most effective when they use our elegant Missile Launchers. The versatility and range of this armament, combined with their mount's agility, make for a more survivable unit than would be expected.

Despite their crudity, the dedicated anti-vehicle weapons of the lesser races are a very potent threat to these units to be sure. However, as my host ride the Wave Serpents and bring other engines of Vaul to battle, we find that their attention is drawn away from the Vypers.
[hr]
[hr]
Our greatest success using them has been against the foul Orks, as those I have (so far) encountered do not make use of much the anti-vehicle weaponry that hinders a Vyper's effectiveness.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 19:46   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

In reverse order:

Diffusing enemy fire with waveserpents would be nice, I just need to get the models :/. I guess it is the Eldar's turn for a purchase, Tyranids and Marines are leaving them in the dust. The EML is still very tempting yes.

To kill troops, I do love my war walker (funny how war walkers walk to war but don't walk back...). While they are great, they are a heavy slot, but I think they really do fill a different role than Vypers would.

The best armor is to stay out of range, but at the same time the best shot is the one you don't have to take. But then again no plan survives contact with the enemy, in a month (probably) when I get my Eldar sorted I will be sure to run this guy, see if IT can survive contact with the enemy.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 21:05   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

I never really rated Vypers, even as a way to fill in a Fast Attack slot. Because they can be penetrated by Heavy Bolters, Pulse weapons, even downed in CC without a Powerfist (not that anything would really get close to it (or need to.))
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 21:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

I normally use Vypers in one of two ways.

1.) A cheap bare bones harassment unit that I honestly only take to fill up awkward left over points. Or...
2.) I use them in conjunction with War Walkers keeping the vypers on my side and flanking the walkers on their side to catch the enemy in a lovely nasty little cross-fire. I have found uses for them.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 22:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

Okay I come from Australia, so the meta in comps is very different.

I have versed a very good eldar player who had three vypers that he scooted around his back lines and put in some pot shots where needed, but he also had two serpants, two prisms, jetbikers with autarch, doom seer and warp spiders, so he had enough targets to take the pressure off the squadron.

I think the key with vypers is have enough other threats on the board to take heat off them, they shouldn't be your primary unit's, more as a support unit or your key elements in your army....

That being said I'm going to have 6 in my army, but I'll also have a biker seer council, 15 jetbikes, socring god flacon and dragons in a serpent (shrugs)
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 22:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: A Vyper by any other name is still an AV10 bullet magnet.

If you want an anti-infantry vyper, use an EML and a shurikannon. That was you can launch plasma as a defensive attack and not rely on your lame BS. It also gives you decent tank hunting capacity, as well as monstrous creatures.
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