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-   -   Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo. (http://forums.tauonline.org/craftworld-eldar/79803-karandras-eldrad-harlequins-shadowseer-combo.html)

chicop76 04 Apr 2010 10:32

Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
I was just wondering if it was a good ideal to combine the phenoix lord with the Harlequin with Eldrad in tow. The lord would give the squad move through cover and infiltrate. Which will allow the squad to outflank or start closer to the enemy. The shadowseer ability would allow you to have veil of tears for the squad plus plasma grenades. Than Eldrad would provide fortune and doom. This squad at full members hit around 600-700 pts easy. Just wandering if it's worth it.

Zen 04 Apr 2010 12:57

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
I thought Karandras can only join his own Aspect Warriors.

Boneguard 04 Apr 2010 13:30

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenai
I thought Karandras can only join his own Aspect Warriors.

I thought as too, but actually, the wording is more of a cannot join other aspected warrior IIRC (don't have the codex with me).

Well I got a few reservation about this unit:
1) As you stated it's expensive as Hell so make a very breautiful priority target and weakens you in other department.
2) I need to check the wording, but I'm not 100% on whether the specific unit ability would be transferable or not.

For Exemple the Tau stealth shield generator. It's specifically state that it,s transferable to drones, but if an XV-8 commander or an Ethereal joins the unit the whole unit loses the Stealth bonus.

So the question remain is Karandras, the Harlequin and Eldrad special rules transferable or will the inclusion of another unit cancel it, making it an expensive unit with no special power.

Droids_Rule 04 Apr 2010 13:48

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Boneguard is correct. They can join Eldar units, just not other Aspects. So Karandras with Harlequins, or Guardians, or Wraithguard, or whatever you might want, is perfectly fine - he simply could not join Aspect Warriors that weren't Striking Scorpions. This tactic is legal.

However, this is a lot of points and not really that effective, in my opinion. If you do decide to Outflank you're denying your army Eldrad's psychic powers, and even if you Infiltrate you'll still be out of range for Guiding or Fortuning anyone but the Harlequin unit.

loeldrad 04 Apr 2010 16:22

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
The Shadowseer's Veil is a Psychic power that is cast upon the unit in the same manner that a warlock casts powers (Embolden for Example). Since it says "Any enemy wishing to target the Shadowseer or the unit she is with must..." you would be able to have IC's join the unit and gain the benefit from Veil of Tears.

To note on whether or not this unit would do well.. I don't think it will be as good as you think. For all the points you dump into it its going to leave the rest of your army drawn thin. If you out flank with them you're leaving your army without the support of their 700 point unit. If you infiltrate with them i'm afraid your opponent will move up and focus fire the one unit. Even with fortune Rapid fire bolter's are murder to harlies. I feel using this unit the way you are planning isn't playing to the strength of veil which is to alone get into shooting range of the one unit you are planning to charge, not infiltrating into shooting range of his entire army before turn 1.

A unit that is more appropriate for the role you are looking for is a JB Seer council. They are Eldars go to "shove this unit down your throat" melee unit. Reason being is even though the don't have Veil they are much faster, hit like a truck but must importantly can take a punch. Toughness 4, 3+/4+ re-rollable saves and 3+ cover saves from turbo boosting > the wounds youd mitigate for Veil in this instance. For 160 points less You could have a Farseer and 10 warlocks Doom/Fortune/Enhance/Embolden/8x Destructors...

Also one thing that kills your combo is that Eldrad does not have Fleet and idk about you but I always need to fleet my Harlies. I suppose you could sub out Eldrad with a farseer though...

chicop76 04 Apr 2010 17:18

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by loeldrad
The Shadowseer's Veil is a Psychic power that is cast upon the unit in the same manner that a warlock casts powers (Embolden for Example). Since it says "Any enemy wishing to target the Shadowseer or the unit she is with must..." you would be able to have IC's join the unit and gain the benefit from Veil of Tears.

To note on whether or not this unit would do well.. I don't think it will be as good as you think. For all the points you dump into it its going to leave the rest of your army drawn thin. If you out flank with them you're leaving your army without the support of their 700 point unit. If you infiltrate with them i'm afraid your opponent will move up and focus fire the one unit. Even with fortune Rapid fire bolter's are murder to harlies. I feel using this unit the way you are planning isn't playing to the strength of veil which is to alone get into shooting range of the one unit you are planning to charge, not infiltrating into shooting range of his entire army before turn 1.

A unit that is more appropriate for the role you are looking for is a JB Seer council. They are Eldars go to "shove this unit down your throat" melee unit. Reason being is even though the don't have Veil they are much faster, hit like a truck but must importantly can take a punch. Toughness 4, 3+/4+ re-rollable saves and 3+ cover saves from turbo boosting > the wounds youd mitigate for Veil in this instance. For 160 points less You could have a Farseer and 10 warlocks Doom/Fortune/Enhance/Embolden/8x Destructors...

Also one thing that kills your combo is that Eldrad does not have Fleet and idk about you but I always need to fleet my Harlies. I suppose you could sub out Eldrad with a farseer though...

True. It would knock the unit point cost by 100 if I put just a farseer in it. Didn't notice Eldrad can't fleet. Now it would be a 500-600 pt unit. Hmm didn't realise council on bikes was that cheap now. Also you can easily get to where you needed rather quick and anti-everything.

TigStripe 04 Apr 2010 19:05

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Moot point, anyway - only Aspect Warriors gain the benefit of Exarch Powers, and Karandras can only join Scorpion squads, as far as Aspects go.

chicop76 04 Apr 2010 19:19

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TigStripe
Moot point, anyway - only Aspect Warriors gain the benefit of Exarch Powers, and Karandras can only join Scorpion squads, as far as Aspects go.

you're wrong. He can join non-aspect units. The only ability he doesn't give the unit is stealth which he only gives to scorpions. Which makes you wonder why they have to be specific about other units not getting stealth if he can't join anything but scorpions. Just look on the page on the left and read it expecally if you didn't bother to read the whole thread before you posted.

Droids_Rule 04 Apr 2010 19:24

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Chicop, note the 'as far as Aspects go.' TigStripe clearly knows that a Phoenix Lord can join any non-Aspect unit - no need to go biting his head off. And yes, it doesn't say Karandras' Stealth applies to any unit besides Striking Scorpions, so this tactic is illegal as well as, in my opinion, a points sink.

chicop76 04 Apr 2010 19:47

Re: Karandras, Eldrad, Harlequins, and Shadowseer combo.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
Chicop, note the 'as far as Aspects go.' TigStripe clearly knows that a Phoenix Lord can join any non-Aspect unit - no need to go biting his head off. And yes, it doesn't say Karandras' Stealth applies to any unit besides Striking Scorpions, so this tactic is illegal as well as, in my opinion, a points sink.

Sorry. I have a 5yr old harass me at times while I'm reading. So he at times put me in a foul mood. Can't bite the little ones head off. Anyway I thought harlequins was non aspect. The infiltrate part states it's for the unit. I'll reread latter to make sure. As far as I saw I only saw stealth not working and didn't notice eldrad not having fleet. That's why I posted cause I knew someone might point out something I over looked.

What about the lord outflanking with the harlequins.


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