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Quick Question on Storm Guardians...
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Old 10 Feb 2010, 02:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

I was toying with the idea of getting some storm guardians for my eldar, so while looking at their codex entry, deciding if I should get them, I wanted to make sure I had this little question cleared:
  • Is the warlock replacing a guardian, or is he simply being added to the total guardians? So, in other words, if I got a full unit of guardians, would I have 20 boys or 21 boys?

By the way, yes, I am planning on fielding a full unit of these boys; two of them to be exact. I think they will work pretty well with my foot-slogging Eldar army. If not these boys, then I'm going wraithguard for the toughness, but then again, I love horde-like units a little more. Opinions? Any tricks on using them that was not covered in all the guardian tacticas?

I'm getting really picky on what to get for my Eldar, mostly because unlike Tau, the Eldar can actually be competitive enough to win games, and I really don't want to make a wrong choice to ruin that momentum I have going.

And, as always, thanks in advance! ;D
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Old 10 Feb 2010, 03:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

The Warlock is an additional model bringing a 20 man storm guardian unit up to 21 models.

In my personal opinion Storm guardians are not competitive enough. Some people may disagree and sure they can be used to success but based on my experiences wraithguard as troops are a more competitive choice in a foot slogging Eldar list.

In my opinion Storm guardians are best used 10 strong in a transport with 2 meltas, accompanied by an Autarch with a melta gun along with some melee upgrades and a Warlock with a spear. This gives you a pretty decent anti tank scoring unit that can hold its own in melee. Now as far as tips to using them in the footslogging manner you describe I don't really have any. About all i can say is, if you take two 20 man units, use one as a screening unit with a conceal lock and then actually buy upgrades on the other unit and perhaps use an enhance lock? I'm still not impressed by their damage output compared to their cost but hey to each their own.

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Old 19 Mar 2010, 01:13   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

If you are going to be footslogging your guardians in 20 strong units adding a Warlock will help them survive in hand to hand. You also want them assaulting your opponents units with low strength. I think adding 2 flamers is a better choice than adding the 2 meltas, and use grenades for busting the tanks. This make them a threat to lower strength infantry and to vehicles. Try to keep your guardians spreadout and make use of available cover, this will help them survive against incoming fire and templates dropped on them.

Also for me at least I always run a squad of striking scorpions and infiltrate them as close to the enemy as possible. Your scorpions get shot up pretty bad before they can do anything, but it allows the rest of your army to have free reign for a few turns.
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 15:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

where do you get grenades? Neither warlocks nor storm guardians have grenades.
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 16:59   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

Yeah, Guardians don't come with grenades.

You can use either flamers or meltaguns, both are very cheap and valid weapon systems. Personally, since they will mostly be going after basic infantry types, I prefer 2 flamers and a Destructor Warlock. But all-in-all, either one is good. I've used both. But I've also used the Warlock for attacking vehicles on his own, with Storm Guardians covering the hatches as the Witchblade, Singing Spear or not, is a formidable anti-tank weapon. The only difference is one can be thrown as a shooting weapon, and the other gives you an extra attack in combat. Both still give you a total of 3 attacks at Strength 9 on the vehicle. As to which is better, it goes back and forth, but obviously stick with a Singing Spear if you have meltas.


Of course, if you're in a Wave Serpent to get there safely.


It sounds like you're in need of a Farseer. When my cousin takes his Eldar on foot, he always takes Conceal and if he's taking a lot (which isn't very often) he doubles it with Fortune, Doom, and sometimes Guide. This gives the Guardians, not very good or competitive troops on their own, some interesting capabilities.

If you want something to go up against infantry, you might as well have Dire Avengers, but that's more expensive (though a more solid choice IMO). But we're talking about walking. 20 Guardians, 5+ cover save in the open, re-roll (or 4+ in the case of true cover). Then assaulting with the remainder, Guiding their shots and Dooming the target for re-rolling failed wounds. It could work.



Personally, if you're going on foot, I'd stick with normal Guardians though because then you have, unlike Dire Avengers, a mobile cannon with 20 bodyguards. I support any weapon type except the Bright Lance, too expensive for a 1-shot BS:3. The Scatter Laser allows a maximum output of shots, especially at 12" range with the addition of the catapults. The Shuriken Cannon is extremely cheap. Star Cannon is nice for knocking out tougher targets and Monsters. The EML is flexible between enemy troops, monsters, or tanks. At least this way you can do damage at range while moving up, as opposed to taking damage all the way up until you're close.


Storm Guardians on foot are good on paper. Once you actually apply them, you'll see that, while they are significantly cheaper than Wraithguard, the Wraithguard can actually be worth it. The reason Storm Guardians are an acceptable choice is because, even though they are "horde", they can be enhanced by psychic powers from the Farseers and still carry an Initiative of 4.


I haven't done this before, but I have seen it done, and I paid very dearly for it. A Warlock with Enhance. My cousin's "horde" had WS:4, Init:5. He Doomed my 10 Space Marines. He flamed them with 2 Flamers and shot with the pistols (13 shots), all wounding on 4+, re-rolling, and then charged with a frightening 43 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 5+ re-roll, before I got a chance to lift a finger. By the time I got my chance to attack, there wasn't a single Marine alive. Next turn, he charged the Drop Pod and wrecked it with the Witchblade and held onto the Objective. To say the least, I was stunned.


I've seen him use Storm Guardians often lately in a Wave Serpent, so I've followed suit and I like it. On foot, you either need a method to reach the enemy or have them come to you. Just be careful when you play Tyranids because that Doom of Malan'tai will eat you alive.
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 19:38   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

As has been stated, yeah, the Warlock is a whole new model not an 'upgraded' Guardian.

Hmm... you like horde style units but are competitive and playing Eldar? I predict some problems, but it's your choice... Our "horde" unit is too expensive to truly be an effective horde unit (in my eyes/experience)... true it performs well in the right circumstances, but it's quite hard to get those circumstances to occur...
[hr]

Other than that, footslogging means you'll want them to make it there, so you're going to have to choose between Enhance, Conceal, and Embolden for a power. Embolden/Conceal means your guys have a much better chance of making it there, but Enhance means they're worth it when they do get there. Honestly, I have to say Enhance is the better choice. If you're doing a whole footslogging army I'll bet you're bringing an Avatar for morale and you'll probably be making decent use of cover...
[hr]

I actually have grown fond of using Storm Guardians as specialist weapons teams, two Flamers for Horde armies and two Meltas for Mech armies, mounted in Serpents with and 'lock. Unload, shoot, kill. If you're lucky they'll be able to either hop back in or assault.

Above all, as a player I prefer to minimize casualties whenever possible though, so the Horde army is an anathema to me. Good luck though, whatever works for you
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Old 20 Mar 2010, 23:52   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithseer
where do you get grenades? Neither warlocks nor storm guardians have grenades.
My mistake, sorry the gerbal in my head gets tired now and then.
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 23:15   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

What I'm planning on doing is have a Warlock with Destructor and a Singing Spear, and two Guardians with flamers. Imagine that world of hurt coming out of a sperpent? Crispy IG and orks! If I know I'm going against a tank heavy army I'll go with one melta and one flamer. I'd still have the spear for anti-tank as well.
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 02:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestialDragonKing
What I'm planning on doing is have a Warlock with Destructor and a Singing Spear, and two Guardians with flamers. Imagine that world of hurt coming out of a sperpent? Crispy IG and orks! If I know I'm going against a tank heavy army I'll go with one melta and one flamer. I'd still have the spear for anti-tank as well.
Destructor is an amazing psychic power, but save yourself the 3 points and keep the Witchblade/pistol combo. That way, you can Destructor during the Shooting phase, alongside those two Flamers, and then charge in with the Warlock getting 3 2+/S10 attacks. Spears are 2-handed weapons, depriving you of the pistol's extra attack, and you can only fire either Destructor or the Singing Spear each Shooting phase. True, you'd be good against armor values at range, but if you fire the Spear at a vehicle, you'll unfortunately have to charge said vehicle and hope to wrap some of your unit into things it can actually damage with the Guardians.

My mantra with Spears is that they're good for Spiritseers following along Wraithguard, and a few to provide ranged doom on a jetlock squad.
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Old 30 Mar 2010, 06:17   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Quick Question on Storm Guardians...

I'm okay throwing in a Spear if I'm running twin Meltas and intend to hunt tanks with that squad. Call it extra insurance... Pays off, but not all the time. Mostly just nice to have the marginal safety net.
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