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So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 20:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

So, due to some of the significant tactical limitations of the Tau in 5th edition 40k I've decided that I want to play a new army. Eldar in fact. They're similar enough to Tau where it wont be much of a learning curve and they also are strong in pretty much all of the areas where the Tau are weak. Those areas being assault and psychic powers. Also, they have a higher base leadership and mobility is increased. I will miss the rail guns and crisis suits but I've found in my experience I've found that bright lances are capable of doing an admirable job of dealing with vehicles at a decent range. Besides which fire dragons are an obvious method of dealing with armored threats. Anyway, I wanted to get some opinions on some other more contentious bits.

Striking Scorpions vs. Howling Banshees? I'm building a 2250 point army and I'm going to have a unit of each in my army. However at lower points games like 1500 or 1750 I'm going to be taking one unit or the other. Which unit unit do you find to be better in a TAC list? The speed and power weapons of the howling banshees are great. Similarly their initiative 10 is amazing as well and the fact that the exarch can give them counter attack. On the otherhand Striking scorpions get a 3+ armor save and they get strength 4 and also have the ability to outflank. Also, they get 1 more attack on the charge so y'know, that sounds pretty awesome too. I would definitely taking a wave serpent with the banshees. So in lower points that's a strike against them. Bot lemme know what you guys do.

Storm Guardians? 92 points for 10 guys with pistol, chainsword 1 flamer and 1 melta gun doesn't sound too bad. Maybe put them in a wave serpent to get them across the board in one peice because they're awfully fragile. I was thinking about using a couple squads as super cheap scoring units that are capable of defending themselves from modest threats. I was thinking of taking 2 melta guns instead of just one. They're not going to be in the 2250 point list that I'm building. But I'm wondering what people might think of them for expanding my list further.

How often do you use the Autarch? I've got an autarch on jetbike in my 2250 point army. It's going to be a Saim Hann themed army. His rules are pretty darn good for his points. However, I'm finding that when I mentioned not using a farseer people thought I was crazy. Seems like the Autarch is sorta the red headed step child of the Eldar HQ's. Thoughts?

Are Vyper Jetbikes as bad as they look? Honestly on paper they look terrible. They start off cheap enough but then they've got expensive weapons, vehicle upgrades that are the same cost as the ones for wave serpents and falcons. So they end up being extremely expensive open topped vehicles that can be reasonably taken out by a squad of space marines with bolters or outright DESTROYED by fire warriors. Just wanted to see if anyone else had any different experiences with them.

Eldar Missile Launcher or Bright lance? Point for point which do you guys think is better? I'm considering putting Eldar Missile launchers onto my Wave Serpents. But then again I like having the lance in case I encounter any pesky armor 13/14 vehicles. Such as landraiders, hammerheads, leman russ' and so on. Of course the strength 4 ap 4 pinning blast weapon isn't that bad either. Which do you guys use more often. Right now I have the wave serpents configured with bright lances, but this is subject to change. Also, I happen to think the bright lance is particularly cool looking. So that's of course a factor! ;D

I would eventally like to start doing a little bit of Eldar power gaming. As such, what is the best way to convert up some Jetbike Warlocks? Any suggestions? I'm already going to be converting my farseer onto a jetbike, with a little bit of torso chopping here and there. I'm just hoping I dont have to do that for ane ENTIRE unit of warlocks and maybe there's some easy look alike conversion job to do in plastic.

Anyway, these are my questions. Let me know your opinions. No wrong answers here, no debate. Just looking to hear your thoughts.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 20:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

Hey Jedibean! Itís good to know people are still interested in joining the craftworlds. The Eldar are by far my favorite faction, basically for all the reasons you said. Lots of tactical diversity. Anyway, hereís my take on your questions.

Striking Scorpions vs. Howling Banshees?

I always used to take striking scorpions over banshees. The main thing was the 3+ save that scorpions get. Give the exarch a power claw and you have all the anti-armor you need. I gave up both these units for Harlequins, however. They get the speed, the strength, greater skills, harder to shoot at, and more options. Their save is lower, but invulnerable. many a time have I charge monstrous creatures and not lost a single Harlequin. But to stick to the topic, it's purely a case-by-case basis. The arguments for either or go on for eternity.

Vs. weak armor, numbers, vehicles, or high toughness? Go scorpions
Vs. Strong armor? Go banshees

Scorpions just seem more versatile. I think in general they're a better choice, but it depends on what niche you need filled in your army. A doomseer with a squad of banshees can be a deadly thing.

Storm Guardians?

Youíre spot on with these guys. Guardians are better as meat shields, and sitting back and shooting a single heavy weapon a turn. If you want to get in there and do something, storm guardians are your best bet. Just know that if they run into any opposition, theyíll die easy in the frontlines and youíll be down a troop choice. The wave serpent is basically mandatory if you want them to get where they need to be. Donít underestimate Guardians, though. Theyíre good meat shields, objective holders, and can actually shoot well if you get close enough.

Autarch

I bought an autarch a few years ago and used him a few times. His job is to essentially make an aspect warrior squad do something better for 100+ points. I think itís a ripoff. A squad of fire dragons will kill a tank just fine without need an autarch. Striking scorpions donít need a 100 point model with them to get a couple bonus attacks, youíre waaaay better off just buying more scorpions. This goes for pretty much all squads you put him with. Heís just kind of a bland, useless choice. Youíre much better off with a farseer to compliment your force. If you want him in your later expansion, give him a shot. You might mind a useful place for him. I know some people have had success fielding him with a star lance in shining spear squads, though that is very expensive.

Are Vyper Jetbikes as bad as they look?
No, theyíre not. They get a lot of grief because theyíre fragile and have very average ballistic skill, but that is where their weaknesses end. Hereís what make them OK for their points.
1. They can turbo boost. This means you can shoot around behind enemy vehicles, or relocate to areas where theyíre needed. Other weapon platform like war walkers canít do that.
2. Theyíre just as good at shooting blasts. Plasma rockets are a wonderful thing on vipers, as their BS doesnít matter as much.
3. They donít take up a heavy support slot. I know this part of the FoC is a hotly contested area for me, and I donít want weapon platform units getting in the way of my Prisms or Wraithlord.

Once again, it depends on your list. If you want an in-your-face list with lots of wave serpents and jetbikes, these arenít a bad idea. Although, you can take war walkers for basically the same points and double the amount of firepower as a more static firebase. All depends on what youíre trying to do.

Eldar Missile Launcher or Bright lance?
I really like the bright lance. Itís extremely useful at taking out the heavy vehicles, obviously. And if you want, you can take shots at those MC with 2+ saves and laugh. The only problem is the points. And for the missile launcher with the same strength being much cheaper, the bright lance can often be a ripoff. The benefit of having a blast option is also very valuable. EMLís are great to bulk up on in general. Taking a bright lance or two isnít a bad idea, but they can quickly become a points sink.

Warlock squad conversions
Yeah, these guys are nasty. Definitely the nastiest unit (and most expensive) we Eldar have. I have seen quite a few different ways to model them. First, you can take shining spears and give them swords you get from kits like the banshees or dire avengers. Second and most expensive, you can buy the jetbikes and warlocks, and only use the top half of the warlock, gluing him to the torso on the jetbike. The first option is the cheapest and most versatile. Iím sure there are other ways but these are the two that come to mind.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 21:18   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Striking Scorpions vs. Howling Banshees?
Both! Though to your question for lower point games, it depends a lot on your local meta. If you can reasonably expect to face a lot of power armor Banshees in a wave serpent with doomseer support is a very justifiable expenditure of points. If You're 50/50 on whether you're gonna be up against marines or a horde army, I think the versatility of the scorpions and their greater ability to survive unsupported makes them the best choice. They can still do fine against marines by virtue of their S4 and high number of attacks, and also do very well against hordes. They don't have to have a serpent either, which frees up a lot of points.

Quote:
Storm Guardians?
It seems like these guys are being brought up more and more often lately. I'm going to be experimenting with them as a flamer delivery system with a Destructor Warlock attached. I'm not so sure about melta guns though. It's a nice surprise for sure, but they're still BS3 with only two shots-- the flamers ignore the BS issue altogether, and provide some cover-negating firepower we're sadly lacking elsewhere in the army.


Quote:
How often do you use the Autarch? I've got an autarch on jetbike in my 2250 point army. It's going to be a Saim Hann themed army. His rules are pretty darn good for his points. However, I'm finding that when I mentioned not using a farseer people thought I was crazy. Seems like the Autarch is sorta the red headed step child of the Eldar HQ's. Thoughts?
On a jetbike with a laser lance and mandiblasters is probably the most popular setup for an Autarch, but (as much as I like them) I find Guardian Jetbikes and Shining Spears to be fairly subpar choices, and so the Autarch doesn't really fit in my army. I'll occasionally field one with a warp jump generator to add a little anti-tank surprise to a squad of warp spiders, and of course to help with reserve rolls. But yeah, Autarch's are considered generally a lackluster HQ compared to the army defining support of a Farseer.

Quote:
Are Vyper Jetbikes as bad as they look? Honestly on paper they look terrible.
In a word? Yes. Fritz from Way of Saim-hann might disagree (and throw Star Cannons on his, ugh), but current logic is that anything Vypers can do Warwalkers can do better.

Quote:
Eldar Missile Launcher or Bright lance? Point for point which do you guys think is better? I'm considering putting Eldar Missile launchers onto my Wave Serpents. But then again I like having the lance in case I encounter any pesky armor 13/14 vehicles. Such as landraiders, hammerheads, leman russ' and so on. Of course the strength 4 ap 4 pinning blast weapon isn't that bad either.
Bright Lances pay a seriously high "Ap 2 Tax," being from late 4th edition. Also, consider that many Eldar heavy weapons are mounted on fast skimmers that can move 12'' and fire one main weapon. Maneuvering for side armor shots isn't such a big deal against targets like Marine battle tanks or a Hammerhead. Also, I question the prevailing logic (or fear, perhaps) that Bright Lances are such consummate AV14 killers. Assuming twin-linked at BS3 (a la wave serpent) and assuming no cover saves, it takes an average of 12 bright lance shots to inflict one wrecked/explode result on an AV12+ target.

Granted sometimes you need only immobilize or destroy one weapon to render a vehicle mostly useless, but my practical experience has been that for their high point cost and limited availability in the army, Bright Lances are not an effective means of taking care of AV13+. I would save the 20pts and get the EML with better range and a very effective anti-infantry shot, and leave the AV14 hunting to Fire Dragons, Witchblades, or Prism Cannons.

Quote:
I would eventally like to start doing a little bit of Eldar power gaming. As such, what is the best way to convert up some Jetbike Warlocks? Any suggestions? I'm already going to be converting my farseer onto a jetbike, with a little bit of torso chopping here and there. I'm just hoping I dont have to do that for ane ENTIRE unit of warlocks and maybe there's some easy look alike conversion job to do in plastic.
The High Elf Mage from fantasy makes a great conversion for a nice bike-mounted Farseer. For Warlocks, a squad of Shining Spears and some green stuff can make for a simple but effective conversion. Maybe hold on to any spare power weapon bits you get from the Dire Avenger kits to use as witchblades/singing spears.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 22:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

sorry Im not good at doing quotes and stuff, but to some of yer q'
s.


scrops vs banshees... really depends on what you play against most. scorps slaughter orks, banshees slaughter MEQs. It comes down to whether or not beating the toughness is more likely than beating the armor save. I think DOOM on the unit targetted by banshees is a great middle ground. Don't forget scorps can flank, which is huge though. Biggest problem is trans for eldar assault troops is difficult to deploy and get in a charge before getting shot up. We aren't gifted with drop pods and land raiders we have to wait a turn for out cc glory to have its moment. It's best to use these types of units with some bladestorming avengers, so the dakkadakka bladestormers can at least reduce the amount that your cc guys are trying to withstand before their charge.

Storm Guardians = no. dumb. 5th ed. made IG troopers and ork boyz far superior. SGs just suck and cost too much.

Autarch: Farseers are better. Speartarchs make for a good hard hitter but point for point, not worth what other armies get for much less. Farseers make your other squads more useful instead, which is better versus codex-creep where other armies get better cc badasses for less points, at least farseers don't suffer from comparable utility versus codex creep like autarchs do.

Vyper:
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Old 03 Feb 2010, 22:56   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

I'll just add my .02 onto the stuff I have a different opinion on, or can offer more validation.

Scorps vs. Banshees - everyone's said what I wanted to say. However, if you ever feel like trying it out, proxy Jain Zar in a squad of Banshees. Giving them all Fearless and Furious Charge pretty much makes Banshees one of the best CC units I can think of. Plus, Jain Zar is nasty in melee herself. I haven't really tried out Karandras yet.

Storm Guardians - ehh, not enough experience with them, but an Enhanced squad (Warlock) with flamers is a rather surprising thing to see out of an Eldar army.

Vypers - I agree that the blasts of the EML are great for ignoring the Vyper's pitiful BS, but on the other hand, Vypers are pretty quick little buggers that can find obscuring cover far easier than their bigger brothers in our tanks division. One of my favorite setups is dual Shuricannon and Spirit Stones. If they get shaken, boost out of danger until you can knock off six S6 shots next round. 24" isn't terribly impressive for a heavy weapon, so utilize the Vyper's small frame to make the terrain on the board yours, not your opponent's.

Autarch - I love Autarchs. They are beasts when properly equipped. I'll admit that their main roles are to enhance pre-existing squads, but an Autarch on a jetbike with a fusion gun and laser lance is a very well-rounded solo unit, albeit on the pricey side (add in mandiblasters and the single model is 140 points). I typically run him with my Shining Spears, because more Laser Lance attacks in melee is always a good thing. I do recommend having a Farseer in your army for support, but if you want to run an Autarch, especially in a Saim-Hann theme, please do. Take something for cc and something for armor values and you won't be disappointed, as long as you hide his defeatable T3 inside a larger unit (like jetbike guardians or spears). Another option, while even more expensive than a Speartarch, is to run a squad of jetbike Warlocks with him. That many turbo boosting Witchblade attacks will make any army cry. Beware though, since this is easily 1/3 or more of your points in most game capacities.

NOTE: Autarchs also have nice synergy with Scorpions or Walkers who intend to outflank, increasing your Reserve roll results by 1 each round. Keep that in mind. This works with Hawks, too, causing a far more reliable Rubber Banding Hawks tactic.


EML vs. Bright Lance - eh, I kind of look at all available units that can fire a Brightlance and say, "BS3 on anything that should be firing them." They're even MORE expensive on Serpents (Twin-Linked) and Wraithlords (for some reason), both with the equivalent to BS4. Guiding a squad of War Walkers with six Bright Lances, however, is a valid (albeit expensive) static anti-tank platform. But overall, I'd prefer to take the EML. At my store, there is a ton of armor values, and I still take EMLs over Lances. Why? Because of BS3 Lancing, and the ability to fire a Pulse Laser + EML secondary at 12" movement.

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Old 04 Feb 2010, 01:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: So I'm starting an Eldar army and I'm looking for some opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigStripe
Scorps vs. Banshees - everyone's said what I wanted to say. However, if you ever feel like trying it out, proxy Jain Zar in a squad of Banshees. Giving them all Fearless and Furious Charge pretty much makes Banshees one of the best CC units I can think of. Plus, Jain Zar is nasty in melee herself. I haven't really tried out Karandras yet.
Dude, I frickin' wish that Jain Zar granted furious charge to Banshees-- she doesn't, it's just an ability that she has.

Quote:
Autarchs also have nice synergy with Scorpions or Walkers who intend to outflank, increasing your Reserve roll results by 1 each round. Keep that in mind. This works with Hawks, too, causing a far more reliable Rubber Banding Hawks tactic.
This is really the only thing that inspires me to take an Autarch besides Yriel-- to add to the reserves rolls when I'm running an army with warwalkers or deepstriking warp spiders.
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