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Dragons versus Wraithguard
View Poll Results: Which would you take? Please read the description before voting.
AP1 trumps all. Take Dragons. 21 40.38%
Wraithguard can withstand the defenses. 31 59.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27 Dec 2009, 23:15   #11 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

Depends on how you look at it. The wraithguard can be a troops so they can dish out the pain and take an objective late game. They also have great killing power vs the MC's but not guranteed kills while the Fire Dragons do and more numbers is always good.

So in a straight kill match the fire dragons will give you more bodies and more wounds while in an objective game the wraithguard will be a scoring unit thats tough agtainst the swarms that will be hitting the table and potential mc kills.

IMHO Go for the wraithguard.
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Old 28 Dec 2009, 18:02   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

In the special case of you having to foot slog due to lack of transports then yes Wraithguard will fare you better in the sense that they are more durable and you aren't giving either of them a transport (Dragons just cannot stay alive without a transport). However in my opinion you will have a hard time getting to and killing those MC's with Wraiths or Dragons if you don't have a transport to quickly and safely bring their guns to bear on their target. If you do end up getting another transport, I'd go with fire dragons as they will get the job done and be a third of the points.

The Eldrad, 10x Wraithguard, spirit seer combo comes in at 606 points... If you are going to run this setup you really need to base your entire army list around this play style for it to work effectively due to that 606 point unit really streching the rest of your list thin. I know there are some great guides and tips on running wraith wall, I'm sure you can track them down with the search function. Now with that said I know Wraith Wall lists work well but the wraith guards aren't really the ones dealing the damage. They are there to soak up hits, grant cover to your other units, be a solid troops choice for end game objective capping and to try and scare your opponent to put himself in a bad position in an attempt to avoid the wall. They aren't there to and aren't going to deal a whole lot of damage but its ok because in a wraith wall list, that's not their job. So even if you do decide to run Wraith Wall you would still need a unit dedicated to downing those MC's quickly as its not going to be possible for your wall to do unless your opponent has a misfire in his brain and nicely moves them right in front of your slow wraithguard.

In my opinion guns with a 12 inch range need transports or need to be on fast moving models to be truly effective at killing. I feel a Nids player would have any easy time either just straight up avoiding your slow moving unit that you will clearly be relying on to kill those MC's or stopping your wraiths dead in their tracks with a bunch of cheap Gaunts. You are going to have a problem either way (dragons or wraiths) without transports to get those short range high strength guns where they need to be safely and quickly to down those MC's.
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Old 04 Jan 2010, 15:10   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

IMO, if youre going against bug bugs, id take the guard. one roll of a six and that huge uber crushy fex is dead. same goes for tyrant guard and hives. now if its bitty bugs youre facing, than the manuverability and numbers of the dragons would benifit you more. plus the dragons have just enough firepower to take care of some big bugs if need be.
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Old 05 Jan 2010, 01:34   #14 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

Against little bugs wraithguard do pretty well too. Go a full squad with Enhance, Eldrad/farseer with them with fortune, in CC they will hit on 3's, wound on 2's. They will be hit on 4+ wounded on 6. That makes them a decent CC unit, and with eldrad it increases shooting hits, and 6's to wound with doom. (Doom allows you to re-roll to wound rolls, so you can re-roll successes....)
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Old 17 Jan 2010, 14:49   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

I would go for Wraithguard, considering the punishment they can take. The AP1 is nice, but the Dragons aren't manoeuvrable enough to avoid taking a lot of hits, even with a Falcon. Wraithguard aren't manoeuvrable at all, of course, but they can take the heat, and the Dragons can't...

Pun totally intended.
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Old 30 Jan 2010, 14:17   #16 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

One thing you've got to rember is if the wraith guard are in shooting range and as there arn't going to be that many you really need a six or the MC will tear up extrmrly expensive wraith guard unit with the fire dragons you'r losing 185 points for 10 with wraithguard you are losing 350.
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Old 30 Jan 2010, 14:41   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

Im swinging towards Wraithguard, the toughness and insta kill is a big plus.

Unless you hell bent on taking one these two units, would a team of Dark Reapers not do the job aswell? Plus they give you a good range advantage, and deny the 3+ save.
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Old 30 Jan 2010, 21:07   #18 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

Well, you seemed to have already figured it all out; most of what everyone's doing is just tossing the words back like a hacky-sack.

But lets change the pace here and take a different angle rather than the basics.

10 Wraithguard with Warlock is going to cost [about] 385 points depending on the Warlock. Well, its really nice for defense. Can't argue that; they can take a great amount of damage and go toe-to-toe with the monstrosities. But anything they don't shoot to death is going to tie them up in combat as both sides are Fearless and won't be going anywhere. But the Wraithguard don't get armor saves against big beasties. That's where the little guys come in (e.g. Gaunts), but they're just going to become a bloody, crashing wave beating upon the cliff.


But who said you need 10 Wraithguard? Depending on what you need, you can take fewer and chop down the price. If you take just 6, now we face another problem. You hit on 3+, and wound on 2+. If any 6s happen to be in there, its Instant Death. The only reason you take more Wraithguard is for a better chance at that. Against a 6-wound monster, you're going to need to either hit and wound with all 6 shots, or hope for a 6 (which is fairly likely, not like its hoping for a double 1 for Leadership).

But now we've got another problem. Suppose the monster/monsters (Carnifex brood) lives. The Tyranid player can use Regeneration if he's got it, and he's just as likely to get a wound back as he would suffering Instant Death if you removed enough wounds (and you probably will). Especially if said creature has 6 wounds. This problem can be easily overcome if you take a Farseer with Guide.


So 10 Wraithguard is a pretty solid confirmation that what they target will die. And if there's 2 Monsters, one is dead and the other is tied up, right? This is where Enhance becomes a necessity. Most of your Monsters that you're going to be concerned with (Tyrannofex is ungodly slow), will have an Initiative 4 or better. So getting first strikes is good. Also, your Warlock is armed with a Witchblade, meaning Strength 9 attacks. A nice bonus.

But in order to fulfill points, you will need to kill 2 such Monstrous Creatures.




For the same price, let's look at Fire Dragons. If you do take 10 of them, you're going to have [about] 225 points left. Do you know what you can do with 225 points?

1 > Add a Wave Serpent with twin-linked Star Cannons, Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones and...
1 > Add 5 more Fire Dragons. (Now if you have a Falcon, stick them in there)


2 > Add 10 Warp Spiders


3 > Add 9 Harlequins, Shadowseer, all w/Kisses


4 > Add 5 Shining Spears w/Exarch, Withdraw, and Star Lance (2 pts over)


5 > Add Fuegan, an Exarch w/Firepike and Crack Shot [If you take this option, Fuegan can take hits in combat and do damage himself]


6 > Add 5 Dark Reapers, Exarch w/EML, Fast Shot (8 pts under)


7 > Add Godtarch (Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Lance, Fusion Gun) and...
7 > Add Farseer with Mind War, Guide, and Runes of Witnessing
[Pair these 2 up with the 10 Fire Dragons you have, and you've got some major killing power]


Merrily stating that the Wraithguard are more expensive as a weakness is a very gross understatement of the fact.

I have voted for Fire Dragons.
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Old 31 Jan 2010, 02:12   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

20 dragons in 2 wave serpents is my standard Eldar Army. I vote Dragons!

Bty nice post Colonel Marksman

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Old 31 Jan 2010, 03:39   #20 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Dragons versus Wraithguard

I agree with the colonel.

And besides, I've seen the look on my opponent's faces before when I dropped a squad of 10 from a Serp and another squad of 6 from a Falcon.

Me: These guys are shooting with meltas
Opponent: Which ones have meltas?
Me: All of them
Opponent: :sadnshocked:

Taught them to go Mech, multi-wound, or MC heavy ^-^
[hr]

That being said, I did have a really fun time making a Necron player run away from me with his Monolith because he was afraid of my Guideseer and 5 Wraithguard . Pure win. It was hilarious.
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