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help for a friend [750pt army list]
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Old 16 Dec 2009, 09:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default help for a friend [750pt army list]

hey im trying to get a friend into the game and he is really into eldar so i have organised a battle for me and him and another friend to happen while he is back home. im wondering what you would advise to make his army competative against my Space Wolves and my other friends Black Templar?

as i stated in the title. it will be 750 pts so ideas on a cheap hq and core units would help
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Old 16 Dec 2009, 09:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

Since both of your other armies are power armor wearing 3+ saves, what would be the best for the eldar is to concentrate on their weapons that have AP3 or lower. Fusion guns, starcannons, reaper launchers, power weapons, and anything that rends all give you the ability to completely ignore the big shiney armor. Fortunately, there are a lot of squads that have that stuff. The other problem when dealing with marines is their T4, which is where Doom is a really handy power to toss around.

My advice is to use some Howling Banshees as your assault force because their power weapons take the advantage away from power armor. They cost about the same points as a space marine, but beat the mess out of them in close combat. A 'Doomseer' for an HQ is a great advantage for them too because it offsets the low Strength versus Toughness ratio disadvantage. A full squad of banshees with the exarch, and a Doomseer, mounted in a Wave Serpent is a great marine killer.

For troops against marines I would say its better to stay away from Guardians, they are very vulnerable to bolters and the whole squad would likely be wiped out by rapid fire before they even get close to being in range. Dire avenger squads ideally are our best troop choice because they aren't as wimpy as guardians, have better range, and still don't cost a great deal. Jetbikers or rangers are a lot more durable than guardians too, but they cost a lot of points, and 750 doesn't give you a lot to work with. The ranger long rifles can also potentially be a power-armor defeater, and their cover saves are awesome, so they could be a consideration.

For heavy support, Dark Reapers are also notoriously good at hosing down marines, but they cost a lot of points too and become easy targets for flankers or deep strike, its best to keep the squad number low.

Here's a sample 750 Marine killy list off of the top of my head...

HQ:
Farseer, Doom
80

ELITES:
Howling Banshees (10), exarch, wave serpent, twin scatterlasers
287

TROOPS:
Dire Avengers (10), exarch, defend, shimmershield and power weapon
162

Rangers (5)
95

HEAVY SUPPORT
Dark Reapers (3)
105

Thats actually 729 points, leaving you 21 to mess around with exarch weapon or power ugrade for the banshees, or maybe an extra farseer power depending on what he likes, or change the wave serpent's weapons to starcannons, all of which are cool little things he can do to personalize the list to his taste without having to get other figures.

just my thoughts...
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Old 16 Dec 2009, 10:44   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

Guitardian's list seems pretty dead on, and nails the important detail that your friend needs to know; AP3 or better is your key to victory over marines. The only suggestion I would make to improve it is spending the 21 spare points he left you and taking Brightlances on the Serpent instead of scatter lasers; the big weakness of the list is if your opponent decides to run a land raider in their list.

Also, I would try and find some room in the list for the Dire Avengers to have Bladestorm. Marines fall just as often to lots of wounds inflicted at once rather than just AP3 wounds. With the prevalance of cover these days, the ability to bladestorm would be a nasty shock.

Here's my suggestion for a revision of Guitardian's list: most things will be the same, but with a few slight changes to fit my own style.

HQ:
Farseer, Doom
80

ELITES:
8 Howling Banshees, Exarch, Wave Serpent, Twin Linked Eldar Missile Launcher

TROOPS:
9 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Bladestorm, Power Weapon, Shimmershield

9 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Bladestorm, Power Weapon, Shimmershield

HEAVY SUPPORT:
3 Dark Reapers

While the loss of a couple of Banshees makes the unit a little more vulnerable, they can still put a hurt locker on anything short of Calgar. I replaced the Brightlances with an EDM, to give you flexability. While you lose the Rangers, a second squad of Avengers allows the units to operate in synch: one can provide cover fire while the other recharges after a bladestorm.

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Old 16 Dec 2009, 15:10   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

I strongly advise going for an exarch with tempest launcher and crack shot for the reapers. If you are aiming to kill marines, then this is the key. Taking out a combat squad (or larger) a turn is great fun! I would also make the DA exarchs' weapons 2 catapults instead, to make up the points needed for the DR exarch. maybe drop a few banshees as well.

scar.
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Old 16 Dec 2009, 16:25   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

While I like the other list too, I have to say that bladestorm is really intended for Avengers in transports, and ideally full strength squads of them. It's just math, 3 shots every 2 turns x 10 = 15 shots per turn, where 2 shots every turn x 10 = 20 shots per turn. Bladestorm is intended for dropping out of transports and blasting, then spending your reloading turn mounting back up and relocating. Additionally, a less-than-full squad of Bladestormers (or Defend/shimmershield exarch) is not points efficient because it is a flat rate for a bonus that applies to the whole squad regardless of size.

Regarding the Brightlance thought... If I'm not mistaken, El Moustache is using all of his own armies, so he should know if he is using a Land Raider in a 750 list. The point when playing against someone new is not to beat the mess out of them, but to give them a chance to figure out what's what by giving them a competetive army against your 'fun' army list. You'll still win, but giving a noob an army that is custom tailored to fight against what you plan on using against him at least gives him a chance to think he's doing well and stay encouraged. So if you are using a LandRaider in one of your marine armies, sure, give him a brightlance.

Regarding the EML... the only advantage I see in that is that it can fire two weapons while moving, combined with a hull mount shuricannon, but when's the last time a plasma missile hurt a marine?

Regarding the tempest launcher. I agree it is a great MEQ killer too, I just couldn't stuff it in the points. Its a great way to teach him about indirect fire, but using a Reaper squad as a mortar means 2 reapers standing around doing nothing but costing a lot of points.
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Old 16 Dec 2009, 16:36   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitardian
While I like the other list too, I have to say that bladestorm is really intended for Avengers in transports, and ideally full strength squads of them. It's just math, 3 shots every 2 turns x 10 = 15 shots per turn, where 2 shots every turn x 10 = 20 shots per turn. Bladestorm is intended for dropping out of transports and blasting, then spending your reloading turn mounting back up and relocating. Additionally, a less-than-full squad of Bladestormers (or Defend/shimmershield exarch) is not points efficient because it is a flat rate for a bonus that applies to the whole squad regardless of size.

Regarding the Brightlance thought... If I'm not mistaken, El Moustache is using all of his own armies, so he should know if he is using a Land Raider in a 750 list. The point when playing against someone new is not to beat the mess out of them, but to give them a chance to figure out what's what by giving them a competetive army against your 'fun' army list. You'll still win, but giving a noob an army that is custom tailored to fight against what you plan on using against him at least gives him a chance to think he's doing well and stay encouraged. So if you are using a LandRaider in one of your marine armies, sure, give him a brightlance.

Regarding the EML... the only advantage I see in that is that it can fire two weapons while moving, combined with a hull mount shuricannon, but when's the last time a plasma missile hurt a marine?

Regarding the tempest launcher. I agree it is a great MEQ killer too, I just couldn't stuff it in the points. Its a great way to teach him about indirect fire, but using a Reaper squad as a mortar means 2 reapers standing around doing nothing but costing a lot of points.
Perhaps just have it firing normally.... set them up in cover and hopefully their 3+/4+ cover should protect them..

scar
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Old 17 Dec 2009, 04:20   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: help for a friend [750pt army list]

ahhh Gutiardian knows me too well.

i do not have a Landraider nor would i have planned to use one.
i have a foot slogging Space Marine army with termies and bloodclaws etc.
the only tank that will be showing up will be my other friends vindicator (he doesnt leave home without it)
i have tailored my weapons to couter the other space marines mostly as i dont want the Eldar player to lose too many models too quickly so he stays interested in the game as long as possible.
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