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Tactica- Reapers
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Old 20 Oct 2009, 09:39   #11 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

the ridiculous escalation and overuse of Drop Pods, ork Waaagh, IG orders, and flanking in general, as well as 'run', makes them just as easy a target as anything else now though. sure against a footslogging army that mentality is all well and good, but since transports and never-oopsing drop pod marines seem to be pretty much assumed nowadays the distance thing is far less of an issue.
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Old 20 Oct 2009, 19:51   #12 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitardian
the ridiculous escalation and overuse of Drop Pods, ork Waaagh, IG orders, and flanking in general, as well as 'run', makes them just as easy a target as anything else now though. sure against a footslogging army that mentality is all well and good, but since transports and never-oopsing drop pod marines seem to be pretty much assumed nowadays the distance thing is far less of an issue.
That wasn't my exact point, as I tried stating in the rest of my post past the second line, guess I wasn't clear.

Most every army has to start off somewhere. If you have troops in your deployment zone, you can expect the faster Eldar vehicles and units going over there. Imagine you have Space Marines. You see a Vyper Squadron, two Wave Serpents, a unit of Banshees just came out of one, Harlequins not too far behind, a Farseer and Autarch on jetbikes with a squad of 8 Warlocks, most with Destructor all near the center of the board or in your deployment zone.

Or perhaps there's 5 Shining Spears led by a Farseer with Doom and Fortune, a Wave Serpent you know has 10 Dire Avengers and Bladestorm, a Falcon armed with anti-tank weapons that has 6 Fire Dragons, and a Farseer on a Jetbike also with Doom and Fortune.

Maybe there's an infiltrating 10-man squad of Striking Scorpions with the Phoenix Lord, a Wave Serpent with all Shuriken Cannons and 10 Howling Banshees, an Autarch with Swooping Hawk wings leading a 10-man squad of Hawks, and a unit of Warp Spiders just came out of Reserves.


Regardless of any of the above outlines, let's say you have 2 Drop Pods coming in, one with an Ironclad Dreadnought and the other 10 Assault Marines. Where the are you going to put them? Next to a 5-man squad of Dark Reapers over 30" away from the main mass of the Eldar army? Even if there was a Wraithlord armed with two flamers, a sword, and star cannon standing next to them?

Even if it's a shooty army, look at the other Eldar options. Let's say two full squads of War Walkers, and an 8-man Fire Dragon unit are next to said 5 Dark Reapers near the center. On the flanks are two Wave Serpents with 10 Dire Avengers, Eldrad Ulthran next to 10 Pathfinders on one side, and a number of Wraithguard on the other.


Here is my point. The rest of the Eldar army is so high on everybody's threat scale that the Dark Reapers are just simply ignored. You can't ever evaluate a unit by itself unless it is the only unit in the army, or in the majority, even then you have to count them up.

If I had a choice between shooting/assaulting any unit in an Eldar army to eliminate, or try to eliminate the threat, regardless of where they are, Guardian Jetbikes are at the very bottom, followed by the Guardians, and just above them are the Dark Reapers. Those three are my absolute lowest-class targets; everything else is above them.

27. Guardian Jetbikes (if there's 10, they go up +2)
26. Guardians
25. Dark Reapers
24. Rangers
23. Support Weapon Platforms
22. Falcons
21. Swooping Hawks
20. Vypers
19. Pathfinders
18. Shining Spears
17. War Walkers
17. Swooping Hawks (tie)
16. Dire Avengers
15. Howling Banshees
14. Farseers
13. Striking Scorpions
12. Farseer on Jetbike
12. Avatar (tie)
11. Autarchs
10. Warp Spiders
9. Wave Serpent (this goes up +2 when I don't know what's inside)
8. Fire Dragons
7. Fire Prisms
6. Prince Yriel
5. Phoenix Lords
4. Wraithlords
3. Wraithguard
2. Harlequins
1. Eldrad Ulthran (I will focus my entire army at this one model if I can before I target anything else)
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 15:03   #13 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Marksman, that's quite interesting, I've never tried to order unit priority before, I would have put Dark Reapers at about number ~15 rather than at 25.

Although it does depend what army I'm playing as or what units are in range of the reapers.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 16:07   #14 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

insane people make lists in order to try and rationalize their incomprehensible ideas.

here's the deal:

reaper + missile exarch = tank killer + 2 expensive useless guys
reaper + tempest exarch = mortar + 2 expensive useless guys
reaper + shrican exarch = taunt character plus 4 reapers doing what they do best
reaper + reaper exarch = entire squad 1 faceted, badass, but obvious target priority
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 17:05   #15 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

I never tried to really make a solid list of priority, probably has something to do with laziness and reactions. Yea, if those reapers are in range after my assault squad breaks some Guardians, and there is nothing else in range (even though there IS a falcon on the table SOMEWHERE), they are going to go get the reapers (dice gods willing). I mean Reapers probably end up a little low, depending on the army; but an assault based army kind of wants to get in close, and doesn't want those annoying reapers pestering them. IDK, I would probably feel fine throwing a dreadnought their way. If they do have a wraithlord babysitter, and Fire Dragons (?)then I suppose its a lost cause, I'll have to focus everything else first.
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 19:29   #16 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Whenever I play I mentally make a target priority list for each of my units once i see what my opponent is fielding rather than a big generalized target list. Remember Eldar are specialist, our units each excel at one thing and that is what determines there individual target priority. This is far more useful than "fire everything at this guy... ok now fire everything at this guy".

As far as what are opponents target priority is it also cannot be put into one big list for that same reason as well as others. If you're so scared of my harlequins that you are firing everything you have including your Lazcannons at them (instead of my tanks) you are defiantly going to lose. Also it changes depending on what your opponent takes. If your opponents list is full of 3+ saves then of course reapers are a high priority where as if they have lots of boys with 6+ saves reapers are the last of their worries.
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 02:49   #17 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitardian
insane people make lists in order to try and rationalize their incomprehensible ideas.

here's the deal:

reaper + missile exarch = tank killer + 2 expensive useless guys
reaper + tempest exarch = mortar + 2 expensive useless guys
reaper + shrican exarch = taunt character plus 4 reapers doing what they do best
reaper + reaper exarch = entire squad 1 faceted, badass, but obvious target priority
Just answer the question. With all the other things on the board in an Eldar army, are you seriously going to blow away their point cost and shoot them before any other unit? If you have Harlequins and two Wave Serpents with twin-linked star cannons, are you going to take your missile launcher team and shoot at the Reapers, passing up the Harlequins and Wave Serpents?




Reapers by themselves in one turn are rarely going to get their points back. You think too single-dimensionally. You have to consider how many turns the Reapers are going to be alive to get those points back; how often someone is going to shoot at them (which will also lower their effectiveness); and exactly what targets the Eldar player has available and who's in LOS.
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 04:38   #18 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

People tend not to shoot at harlies unless they are very close. Something about the risk of the veil losing their shot for them. So yeah... I would target the long range, obviously LOSed heavy infantry killers first.
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 17:24   #19 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitardian
People tend not to shoot at harlies unless they are very close. Something about the risk of the veil losing their shot for them. So yeah... I would target the long range, obviously LOSed heavy infantry killers first.
And you're going to target them before the two Wave Serpents too? Do you read through any of my posts all the way through? You have a team with Missile Launchers, and you're seriously going to target the Dark Reapers?

The Dark Reapers are really higher on your threat scale when facing an Eldar army than Wraithlords? Lone Farseers? War Walkers? Fire Prisms? Falcons? Before you even thought about targeting any of these other units, you would seriously use a unit with 3-4 missile launchers and first shoot at the Dark Reapers?
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If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 22:09   #20 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica- Reapers

Target priority for me is far less structured. It goes something along the lines of:
prime target > opportunity target > leftovers

Where a prime target is anything I am seriously worried about that just needs to be destroyed before it destroys me. Things that put out a lot of beating have to be dealt with first. Or things that are a specific threat to something in my army. For instance if I have a wraithlord, I want all the really high STR weapons off the table, so he can walk around without fear. If I use Walkers I want to get rid of heavy bolters. And so on. Demons, tyrants, sorcerors, indirect or ordnance vehicles, assault terminators, huge ork boyz mobs, etc usually come first in priority for me.

Opportunity targets are like saying 'just kill whatever is easiest to kill in the moment. A lot of vehicles and mediocre troops fall in this category. Reapers are great at blowing MEQ to pieces for instance. You don't kill tactical marines because they are a serious threat you kill them because you can and it's easy.

Leftovers, for me, are often quite respectable units, but that just take too long to bring down and are easier to avoid. Nobz, SMurf superheroic command squads, regular terminators, land raiders, etc. All of these things are tough, soak a lot of fire, but don't do a lot of damage when left alive so long as you stay out of their way.


Other people who realize my play style and have faced my army before use the same mentality (though not deliberately... I think it's just instinctual)... but in just about every game, my Dragons and Reapers are top priority, and my Farseer, then they go after stuff like avengers, skimmers, wraithlord. Stuff like my rangers and vyper and hawks usually survive intact because they don't put out as much hurt as the amount of effort it takes to kill them. It's fun to taunt poor tactical players by presenting them with a frustrating target and letting them go ahead and waste their time trying to kill it. Wounding a wraithlord, Dislodging rangers from cover or trying to corner skyleaping hawks or shoot down a holofielded falcon wastes a lot of energy and some players take the bait. Put something hard to kill on the table and a lot of people will waste their effort trying to kill it, just because it's hard to kill. When I used to use falcons, they barely ever fired a shot, just soaked up fire and ran around annoyingly un-blown-up and shaken all the time. That was fine with me because that's less attention paid to my Avengers, Banshees or my Harlequins who are the ones actually getting things done. Unsurprisingly whenever I use my dragons, they seldom survive. Same goes for Reapers. People know how much harm they can do, and how fragile they are, and zero in on them first.

So in a nutshell: First you kill the most dangerous, then the easiest, then the afterthoughts who you could have just stayed away from.
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