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Tactica-Dire Avengers
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 07:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Tactica-Dire Avengers

Intro There are, what I believe, 4 main avenger set ups. Each one has similar roles on the battle field, but are mostly defined by the Exarch. This guy is what determines the squad, as you will see in the following post.

First Type, Cheap Scorers. Works kinda like a vehicle upgrade.

Numbers: 5 or 6 man strong. Put them in a Falcon or Wave Serpent (Falcon better in this case). Falcons used to be the pet hate of everyone in 40k, now they aren't near as powerful. Think of the Avengers in this case as more being a vehicle upgrade than another unit. They should try and NOT leave their vehicle. The whole idea behind them is to make the Falcon Count as scoring. The falcon is one of our few extremely tough units, so to make it scoring works very well for us. More often than not it can't shoot due to shaken results, so use it as an annoying fire magnet for a mjority of the game, then last minute objective grabber.

Deployment: in the Falcon and hiding.... Don't get them out, unless it is absolutely necessary (Can't make it to the objective, immobilised, only 2 scoring models of the enemy left etc)

Exarch: NONE

Targets: Objectives

A Wise Avenger Doesn't Leave Home Without.... His falcon in this case, as well as spirit stones and holofields. If you want a bit more survivability if you plan on turbo-boosting, vectored engines help!

Second: The Eldar Tarpit. This unit is for tying down units that can either cause havoc to the rest of your army, or prevent something from moving.

Numbers: 10. Long lasting, this unit must be....

Deployment: Either on foot if an avatar is nearby, or in a wave serpent to get to problem areas fast!

Exarch: Shimmer shield, power weapon, defend. Bladestorm isn't for this unit. Defend slows the opponent down, and who complains when they have a 5+ Inv save.

Targets: Powerful units that die easier to CC than shooting, MCS, Walkers. Whilst they may not destroy the opponent, they can at least slow them down massively.

A Wise Avenger Doesn't Leave Home Without.... A farseer. Doom and fortune make this unit last longer and do more damage. The only other upgrade is an autarch. That can add some unreliable walker busting, a few more attacks as well. Farseers work extremely well with this unit. They offer damage to Vehicles, and the powers are nice and close this way.

Third: Instant Death that bypasses all the rules. Plus a shooting phase adds to the crunch....

Numbers: 10. The more ablative wounds and attacks the better.

Deployment: Wave Serpent. Need them there fast. If not, try an avatar nearby...

Exarch: Diresword, Pistol, Defend, Maybe bladestorm. It gets expensive, but this unit puts out a lot of hurt.... Remember, he gets 4 attacks on the charge, with a diresword. He can put out a lot of hurt....

Targets: MEQ, TEQ, GEQ. MCS and tougher creatures are better to avoid. You can risk it, but this squad doesn't have the survivability the tar pit does.

A Wise Avenger Never Leaves Home Without... DOOM! It makes a huge difference. Without it you cant put out anywhere near the amount of hurt. Autarchs are another good add here, extra power weapon attacks.

The main idea of this unit is enemy anihilation. A powerful shooting phase backed up by doom, then supported by lots of power weapon hits. Doom makes this squad work sooo much better too....

Fourth: The Shuriken Typhoon. Shooting, shooting and more shooting....

Numbers: 10. Add an Autarch/Phoenix lord too if you want.

Deployment: If an avatar is nearby, on foot. Asurmen, on foot (As long as there is another target nearby). Otherwise, serpent....

Exarch: 2 Catapults, Bladestorm. Cheap as chips and shooty as hell!

Targets: Anything as long as it doesn't have toughness 8+. Through sheer weight of fire, the enemy will go down, especially if this squad ios supported by a decent assult unit.

A Wise Avenger Doesn't Leave Home Without.... A Doomseer.... Guide is also a big booster. Adding Asurmen also boosts damage output. Just don't blade storm until the enemy is at 12 inches, or they have fleet....

Do's and Do Nots.

DO use bladestorm sparingly. Choose when you need to use it, and support your attacks with other squads.
DO NOT leave the tarpit to its own demise. Get ready with a counter charge unit.
DO Jump out, shoot, get back in. Its great way of doing significant damage.
DO NOT Depend on the bladestorm. The dice gods are fickle beings....
DO Charge! Whilst the basic ork outdoes a dire avenger in CC, what would you prefer, wounding on a 3+ or 4+?


As usual, comments, suggestions, additives, criticisms without being rude....

Hope you benefit from this, I'm going to bed!
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 14:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

awsome stuff, im planning on using a Shuriken Typhoon and a small squad in wave serpent to grab objectives last minute, do you think this is a viable tactic for 1-1.5K battles or is it too expensive?

Are transports scoring if you have a scoring unit in them or do you have to unload the troops to capture the objective
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 16:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

Thanks for the recaps.

I have a squad of 5DAs with exarch that is the shooty configuration. It would be more had more come with the battleforce. They chill in the falcon until the enemy tries something then load out to bladestorm and assault (with doom most of the time). Now, I don't WANT to assault usually, but from what I read they can get back in? I realize they CAN get back in but not the same turn, is what I thought.

Regardless, once up to 10 DAs I can only imagine the carage that will ensue, the few I have now always perform so well.
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 16:58   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Ol' Shakey
The whole idea behind them is to make the Falcon Count as scoring. The falcon is one of our few extremely tough units, so to make it scoring works very well for us.
I'm just curious about what you mean by this. Do you mean so that when you charge an objective, you always have a troop unit that can jump out and take the objective?

Otherwise, I don't think the Falcon itself counts as scoring, simply by have a scoring unit in it. On pg 90 of the rule book, it says that troop units do not count as scoring when they are in vehicles.

Besides that, thanks for the tutorial! It's definitely very helpful for us new Eldar players
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 18:04   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by medd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Ol' Shakey
The whole idea behind them is to make the Falcon Count as scoring. The falcon is one of our few extremely tough units, so to make it scoring works very well for us.
I'm just curious about what you mean by this. Do you mean so that when you charge an objective, you always have a troop unit that can jump out and take the objective?

Otherwise, I don't think the Falcon itself counts as scoring, simply by have a scoring unit in it. On pg 90 of the rule book, it says that troop units do not count as scoring when they are in vehicles.

Besides that, thanks for the tutorial! It's definitely very helpful for us new Eldar players
You're misreading that.

A troop choice that is also a vehicle (say, if IG could take a Scout Walker as a troop FOC slot) does not count as scoring. Units of troops embarked in a transport, however, DO count as scoring, measuring the distance to their vehicle's hull.





Edit: I'm also curious just how effective a Diresword ends up being, for the purposes of instant death.

Just about any target worth using this on is going to have ld 9 at least, and a grand majority will be ld 10. At ld 10, a leadership test is failed only one out of 12 times.

Assuming 4 wounds on the target, there's a good 70+% chance the target will die from purely the number of wounds rather than the instant-death quality of a the Diresword.

This implies to me that trying to kill Marneus Calgar with this weapon is a bit... dicey. Instead, better targets would include Ogryns, swarms, Crisis Suits/Broadsides, etc.

Mathhammer only does so much, though... How effective have people found this Instant-Death-Weapon-That-Technically-Doesn't-Inflict-Instant-Death?
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 19:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

leadership 10 is failed 2/12 times isnt it - 11&12
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Old 01 Sep 2009, 00:07   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

Its more the potential to cause that instant death. It won't happen often, but it will happen on occassions.... Its the potential to instant kill the Hive Tyrant or Daemon prince that causes the most damage.

And yes, a squad can claim objectives from inside a transport. Its probably the safest way for Eldar to sit on objectives, other than fortuned wraithguard/Pathfinders in cover.
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Old 01 Sep 2009, 02:30   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by henbobbleb
leadership 10 is failed 2/12 times isnt it - 11&12
Not quite.

The chance of two 6s is 1/36 - 1/6 chance of 6, 1/6 chance of other being 6.

The chance of a 6 and a 5 is 2/36 - similarly, 1/36 chance each for Dice A being 5 and Dice B being 6, and visa versa.

This means that, given leadership 10, there's a 1/36 +2/36 = 3/36, or 1/12, chance that the roll will be 11 or higher.
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Old 02 Sep 2009, 18:58   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers


I'm going to add my thoughts here. DA are not designed for melee and are not very tough. In fact every time they leave their transport that had better take out their target or you should not disembark. Now it would seem that therefore the two best options are DAVU falcon and Bladestorming Serpent configurations. I have to disagree however.

1) I like DAVU Falcons with five DA. This squad in the new %ed environment is a solid scoring unit. I will use them.

2) Ten DA w/Exarch in a serpent is only useful as a backup to a cc squad ( be it Banshees, Scorps, or Seer Council). They are meant to soften up the target. It is overcosted. You don't need Bladestorm generally ( yes, last turn you tank shot and baldestorm a squad off an objective - sure). You will use once in a game maybe.

3) Eight naked DAs in a BL Serpent are a better choice for mounted DA. Why? They are cheaper, they have enough firepower to soften a doomed target and they are only meant as a backup squad to your cc unit. Otherwise don't dismount and use them as a nice scoring troop. Yes, I'm advocating dropping Exarchs in most cases. They really do not add enough for the points.

Okay, it is heresy. But it is how I play my DA now and I'm much happier using the extra points elsewhere. I get some BLs, a scoring unit and maybe a backup squad all in one. Better than DAVU Falcon? At times. Both are solid choices.
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Old 07 Sep 2009, 04:31   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica-Dire Avengers

I'm always surprised at how well my avengers actually do in CC. Combined with doom, I surprise people with the amount I can kill. Combined with shooting, I eleiminate full boy mobs, marine squads, and had a single exarch survive about 4 assault phases against 2 squads of marines. They are a shoot and assault unit, not pure assult, unless tying up a squad (defend makes dreanoughts very slow in CC) only 1 death a turn, even then there is chances it won't happen.
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