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Eldritch Troops
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 14:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Eldritch Troops

Hi all,

I started Eldar not too long ago, and have only motivated myself to buy one troops choice so far - Dire Avengers.

I am thinking to get some more troops so that my force no longer has to be Apocalypse.

What are the Pro's and Con's of all the Troops? So that's Dire Avengers, Guardians and Rangers/Pathfinders.

Is it worth always upgrading Rangers to Pathfinders?
Are Guardians anything more than meatshields?

Thanks

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Old 26 Aug 2009, 15:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

Dire Avenger's are my favorite troop choice and I'm sure you already know the pro's and con's of them so without knowing your list that's my vote however let's look at some of the other choices.

Guardians.. generally not worth the points. The only time I tend to field them is in higher point games when I'm fielding a BL/EML 2x Flamer Wraithlord. I'll give them an Embolden Warlock, a high rate of fire weapon (usually a scatter laser), put them near a home objective (preferably in cover) and have the Wraithlord blasting away nearby. It's efficient only in the fact that

1) You have a fair priced, semi durable (cover, embolden and numbers) scoring unit covering a home base objective.
2) You are compensating for your BL/EML Wraithlords wraith sight efficiently which i normally find as a challenge unless I'm running a wraith wall.
3) You have a baby sitter in the form of the Wraithlord for your home objective holders, however he is still doing his job of killing tanks while he's babysitting.

Rangers I personally only use in low point games. Always upgrade to pathfinders, it's defiantly worth the points. Target priority for these guys are MC's or any high toughness, high point's cost model. The 2+ cover makes them durable however they are still vulnerable to out flank, drop pods, long range cover ignoring weapons, and fast moving flamer's which tend to be around in higher point games. If your opponent has any of these things your pathfinder's are toast. They are just to juicey of a target with a 10 man unit coming in at well over 200 points.

Now you didn't mention Guardian Jet bikes and I'm not sure why as they are a great Troop choice. They are great last minute turbo boosting objective grabbers / contesters. If you have a larger unit always add a warlock and in my personal opinion give him embolden (If they run away on turn 4 they aren't around to turbo boost onto an objective come turn 5). Upgrade to Shur Cannons whenever possible.

Also Storm Guardians.. I've used with success in certain list however usually they aren't worth taking in my opinion. They are the Eldar equivalent to Orc Boys however they are much worse than Orc boys and cost more.. When I have used them with success is running them in a reserves list with 2 Autarch's. I used them for tank hunting in wave serpents, give them an Autarch with a Fusion Gun, give two of them Fusion gun's and a Warlock with a spear. Not as effective as 5 fire dragons however

1) Still have a great chance of popping a tank. BS4 Str 9 Warlock, BS6 Fusion gun Autarch, and two BS3 Fusion gun's.
2) Are a scoring tank killing unit that you will be pushing deep into enemy territory.
3) Once they drop and pop they can hold their own in CC if needed. Can't say the same for Fire Dragons.


So I guess what I'm trying to say is it really depends on what point cost you are playing at and what list you are deciding to run.
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 17:28   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

Thanks.
My total Eldar collection is as follows:

2 Farseers
4 Warlocks
Avatar
Autarch with Reaper, Power Sword and SHW
3 Wraithguard
6 Howling Banshees
5 Warp Spiders
5 Dark Reapers
Maugan Ra
Jain Zar
Wraithlord
10 Dire Avengers

Wow, that makes my army sound not to small, just lacking in troops.

My usual opponents are either Space Marines or Chaos, hence the Banshees and Reapers.

Also, I'm not too keen on Storm Guardians, I don't know why, I'm just not.
I'm not too keen on fielding anything with a 5+ armour save, as Marines breathe AP5.
I don't mind the idea of Guardian Jetbikes, it's just that they are a bit expensive for a troops choice that aren't going to do too much before my opponent focusses on them.
He has a very sound tactic - kill anything new - which tends to wreak havoc with my Phoenix Lords and Warp Spiders.
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 18:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

That is a good amount of Eldar you have there! Like you said, just lacking in troops.

Hmmm Well I also forgot to mention a ten man strong unit of Wraithguard. If you're looking for durable that's deifnatly the way to go. It would also fit in with your list well as your it appears to be footslogging, you have a Wraithlord and 3 Wraithguard already plus a good amount of Warlocks/Farseers. The only problem is the cost as I'm sure you know since you already own 3 models. Wraithguard are not cheap and I'm not talking about points cost. Even if you order online at a discount 7 more will run you roughly $85. However if you have the money to spend it's a fun army to use and If you'd like to try it out i'd suggest proxying them first to see if you like the playstyle. There's some good tactics on 5th Ed Wraith Wall someone on the boards, if you browse around i'm sure you'll find them.

With that said if you decide Wraith Wall isn't your thing I'd go with more Dire Avengers but I'd put them in a Wave serpent.

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Old 26 Aug 2009, 19:10   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

Thanks, I've not actually bought a single wraithguard yet, they've all been presents. I do like the idea of having a 10 man squad of Wraithguard.
My opponent fears them so much that he even shoots his lascannons at them to kill them. However, they usually pass their Conceal cover save, to his great annoyance.
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 20:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

Hmmm... pretty much. I'm gonna go through the stuff I know (so I'll be leaving out the Wraithguard and the Rangers).

1) Dire Avengers. They're awesome. Why? They can do a lot of different things:

Capturing- decent armor, #'s, and ldrshp means they are ~more resilient than most other options without being overpriced (pointswise)
You can get a MEq statline (defensively for Jetbikes) but you have to pay a lot more for it, and it doesn't have the offensive capabilities

Shooting- their guns are 18" range Assualt 2 Bolters that can become Assault 3. Quite good. Especially if you add Guide and/or Doom >.
In fact most a lot of people I've talked to think these guys are supposed to be best used only for shooting...

Assault- but I think the Shimmershield/Power weapon combo is quite good for doing damage in assault. A word of caution though: unless you've got Doom and/or Fortune to back them up don't assault anything higher than T3 and expect them to do spectacularly. You could manage T4, but not if they're Ork T4 (vast #'s), and not very well. If you've got a squad of 10 with aforementioned Exarch setup then maybe you could go after a squad of 5 MEqs if they weren't kitted for CC. The other option is to have them play the role of supporting assaulter: charge something with Outflanking Scorpions and then back them up with Avengers, pretty good 1 2 punch and the Scorpions will take out a lot of stuff if the foe is T4, evening the odds for the slightly weaker Avengers.

2) Guardian Defenders. In smaller games these guys have actually done okay for me, I brought them in a 500pt game and a 1000 2v2 and they survived both. The cruddy armor means they'll be hiding in decent cover or in their transport best case scenario though.

Capturing- This is probably where these fellas shine. They're cheap (I think 85 with the cheapest support weapon) and with a cheap transport (another 100 IIRC) they're fast and well protected too. You can also bait the enemy by being a little more aggressive than usual with the cheapo Guardian squad causing a close minor(or major if it's an objective) threat while trying to be sneaky with something more important, like a squad of Banshees. In my experience they shoot the closest Serpent first . If you do want the capturing flavor, you may want to invest in either a Concealock or an Emboldenlock.

Shooting- I like the distant shooting role (use the support weapon to sprinkle the foe with Scatterlaser shots or ShuriCan fire) because it keeps them out of CC where they're basically expensive guardsmen (bad combo :P) and out of most weapons danger zones. By Dangerzone, I mean close proximity to being rapid fired.

Assault- Not so good an idea. The platform means that if they had to (and they were assaulting Fire Warriors or something :) they could move forward, shoot all their catapults and the support weapon, and then follow it up with an assault. The hail of fire might've weakend the foe enough for the Guardians to complete their task of A) stalling the foe from advancing or B) weakening an objective holder, maybe even contesting. Or if they have backup and the dice gods favor you then even C) capture an objective.

3) Storm Guardians. Again, I like them, but this time maybe not for the standard reason. I like them as drop 'n' pop specialist weapon squads, with some CC teeth. So bring a transport for these guys ('n' gals) too, they still have paper armor and a higher-than-horde-points cost... I actually used them recently in a 2k capture and hold as tank hunters and objective grabbers (in that order). But I'm considering using more squads in the future and working in the Flamers. Okay, here we go:

Capturing- I use them for capturing as an after thought really. They excellent, cheap, shooting really. If they survive hunting down and blasting their target then I capture stuff. They're too good to just sit on an objective all game.

Shooting- I like this flavor of shooty Guardian better actually, but that's because I play a pretty aggressive Mechanized Eldar so I can get in their face quick, unload, and unload (if you catch my drift). Don't mix your special weapons. Fusion Guns are excellent if you get in Melta range, because statistically you'll get one hit from the 2 guns and that will penetrate unless you're going after a LR or for some reason aren't shooting rear armor. Then you've got a good decent chance of destroying you target. 50% is decent for me (although in my last game, both hit and pen'd but only Immobilized it and destroyed a weapon). Flamers can put the hurt on a lot of things due to a large quantity of forced saves (or just a lot of AP wounds :shifty: [sub]*cough, orks, ahem, IG, heh, 'nids, cough*[/sub]) and the strength and range means that you'll get to use those Shuriken Pistols from the rest of the squad. They can even do decent damage to a MEq squad. And if you set it up right...

Assault- Then you can follow it up with an Assault. If you really want to get the most out of them stick an Enhancelock in there. That's a decent # of WS4 I5 attacks, even if they're only Str3, and following a round of shooting it can work well against stuff other than only Fire Warriors and guardsmen . Add Doom and you'll do okay.

4) Jetbikes The reason you don't see much use for them is that they really aren't for fighting MEqs at all. Best case scenario you can harass lighter armored Troops and, like you said, zip in for a last minute grab.

Capturing- most people do this with them, as did I. Why? they can get there when they need to be there. They can be quite cheap (for the mobility and more toughness, not really model #). The small unit # means they have a low threat profile so they will most likely be ignored for the first part of the game. Or at least as long as your scary Aspects are still running around killing stuff.

Shooting- I like dakka, in case you hadn't noticed. Bringing a small squad with a Shuriken Cannon is lovely, and if you can work in a squad with 2 Cannons is better. Harassing stuff is what these guys are good at, and my army on the whole is geared toward spraying the foe with a lot of Shuriken Cannon shots from a lot of different sources, to force saves and make them keep their heads down. So I use jetbikes for that too.

Assault- No.

Anyway, that's pretty much what I think. I'd like to be able to try all the Eldar stuff out but I haven't yet so there are probably gaps. Anyone who feels up to it can help fill them in (no fair just pointing them out :funny

Soooo, Lord Zannu, I think (of those I've used) Dire Avengers are your best bet for now, but if you want more variety then Storm Guardians are lovely too. And you can kit them out for tank hunting or... whatever Flamers are for :P... Killing stuff >... I guess
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 20:32   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

Thanks for the detailed reply, I think I might stick with Dire Avengers (and maybe a Wraithwall) until I get to about 3 or 4 Troops choices, then I might experiment with Guardians.
Thanks everyone who answered.

I think this can be locked now.
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Old 26 Aug 2009, 22:38   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Eldritch Troops

One quick notice.

As a Wraith Player, I can attest that the Wraith Guards can be worth every cost of them, but only if you build your army around them.

Wraith Guards cost so much, points and money, that if you don't utilise them to their upmost, they can lose you your games. They are best used in most armies to cover for other units.

Their durability, plus their high powered short ranged guns cause them to be high priority targest among most other players. A mistake most opponents make. They are terrific to be used as a choke noose, slowly crawling up the front lines, tightening the noose, right before they're instead shot in the chest by everything else in your army.

They make great moving cover, and are scary enough to divert a large amount of attention. Even when the rest of the army's doing all the actual work.

One game, I faced off against a Apoc Baneblade in a regular game. Very unfair, but I didn't realise it until I actually faced it off. It killed off my entire Wraith squad despite fortune and conceal within two turns. The fastest they ever died. And I've only lost the entire squad four games in the last two years. Meanwhile, the rest of the army bounded up the flanks, and killed off the rest of the army within those two turns. By the time the Wraithguards were finished, all he had left was that one Baneblade about half dead two tanks (in a Armoured Company army) and two exposed flanks speeding in for the kill.
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