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What turn do you start?
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Old 03 Aug 2009, 20:28   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default What turn do you start?

Hey guys,

Since the 5th edition came out, and a few of the newer lists, I've noticed a lot of changes in how many people, myself as well, build their army lists. Furthermore, I've noticed a few changes in tactics.

The most obvious is done at the beginning of the game. The norm used to be that all/most eldar players fought for control of first turn. That does not seem to be so cut and dry anymore. So my question to you guys is, do you start the game first, or do you let the opponent go first?

Also, depending on the army, do you deploy all your units right away? Or all in reserve? I'd like to hear what you guys have to say.
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Old 03 Aug 2009, 21:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

With my Tau i preffer to go second and put everything in reserves. (Drives my friends crazy having nothing to shoot at for 2 turns) I plan on playing my Edlar the same way. I'll just have to see how well it works.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 00:54   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

The problem I find with going second and placing everything in reserve is that I normally have a problem killing enough of my enemy before the game is over.

Eldar need time to kill their enemy - sure they're experts and the quick strike, but it's always concentrated. They're not shooty monsters like guard or tau with vast ammounts of AP1,2, and 3 weapons, and they cant deal with an enemy across a battle line. So when I adapt a strategy to place them all in reserve I tend to have a problem where I need another turn to remove one of my enemies from their objective because I have not pumped enough shots into them to kill them all.

That's why I made this post. I was wondering what worked better for the majority of people out there, taking the first turn to get into good position to fire, or taking the second turn, and try to withstand the enemies initial barrage.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 02:22   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

As the Eldar, I always try to get the second turn. It is almost always worth the initial barrage to see the enemy setup. You can find weak points, places you may want to shoot up, assault, or outflank. The more strategy-dependant the army, the more you should want to go second. I then usually set up a recluse left or recluse right with my army, or split my elves into attack or defense task forces that can coordinate together.

Of course, there are notable exeptions to the rule. If youre fighting Tau and know it wont make a huge difference, you probably want to go first to speed in and close some distance. Or if youre fighting orks and you wanted the first chance to kill those lootas or pop a battlewagon.

and whenever I play orks or when I did play guard I would go first, so I could get closer or shoot the shit out of everything the first chance I got.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 03:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecha73
With my Tau i preffer to go second and put everything in reserves. (Drives my friends crazy having nothing to shoot at for 2 turns) I plan on playing my Edlar the same way. I'll just have to see how well it works.
This is what I've been doing. 2 Autarchs. Everything in transports, flank marching or deep striking. Star Engines on all transports. With the exception of Kill Points, it works pretty well.

The down side is killing things. But you can typically manage to pick off a few units a turn unless your opponent forms a brick on the other side of the table.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 04:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

Not being a fan of cutting games short in order to win (IMO, a good game isn't a win, it's a good fight. Can't have as good a fight in 4 turns as I would in 6) I generally go first provided there is enough cover for my mobile units to stay concealed. If not, I may go second so that the enemy either gets a bit closer. Sometimes they just sit there and shoot at me, in which case there's almost always a good avenue of approach on one side or the other.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 04:48   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
This is what I've been doing. 2 Autarchs. Everything in transports, flank marching or deep striking. Star Engines on all transports. With the exception of Kill Points, it works pretty well.
In that case, would you mind taking a look at my list Emlyn? It's here: C&C please: Thursday game with 2000pts Mech Eldar, PNW- no peeking ... yeah, shameless plug, I know :-\, a guy has to try :shifty:

I've been a fan of taking 2nd turn personally, and keeping a few especially vital units that absolutely must make it to their targets first (either shooting or what have you)... As Tau this meant PosRelay and A.S.S. XV88s in Reserves to show up and poke holes in enemy vehicles and as Eldar it means hiding from said anti-tank until Outflankers can flush it out/destroy it...
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 16:48   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

I most always try to go first. Even though I set up first, most of my units are in tanks, or outflanking. also, setting up first isn't bad because I nearly always take Eldrad, and using divination lets me perform rapid re-deployment and refused flank withn ease.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 17:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

I'll try to go first so I can get the Cover Save from Turbo-Boosting as well as cast Fortune and/or fire my own long range guns to prevent my opponent to fire his own weapon thus decreasing his own firepower output before I get pounded myself with artillery fire.
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Old 04 Aug 2009, 17:20   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: What turn do you start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
I'll try to go first so I can get the Cover Save from Turbo-Boosting as well as cast Fortune and/or fire my own long range guns to prevent my opponent to fire his own weapon thus decreasing his own firepower output before I get pounded myself with artillery fire.
Yes, as Zenai said, i try to reduce incoming firepower. This works especially well when, say, my dark reapers mop up a devastator squad first turn...
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