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Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 02:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

Hi, I currently play The Black Templars and have only lost twice so I get footslogging killing machine tactics quite well. However, recently I have found the lack of tactical depth very boring and I'm experimenting with the eldar in a 750 point game with my friend.

I've been looking over the codex and the first thing that caught my eye was the howling banshees. All of my old tactics popped into my head, but they're not nearly surviveable enough for them. And basically I can imagine how lots of units would excel individually, but I can't quite grasp how to mesh everything together. The only thing I'm sure of is that I want an Autarch. If someone could help me out with a rudimentary list or concept with demons in mind it would be a lifesaver. Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me a little.
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Black Templars: 41-5-8 W/L/D
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Battle is a Symphony. Every soldier an instrument, Every footstep a note, Every shot a resounding bass, Every clash of swords a sweeping solo. The autarch, the general and the conductor must hear the central harmony. Know when to keep the rhythm, Know when to change key, Know when to bait and lure, Know when to explode with sheer power, Know every aspect of his work till it's creschendo builds to that inexorable and explosive climax that leaves the enemy bloody, broken and shattered. A true master creates a new melody every time and rarely falls back on old tunes.

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Old 28 Jul 2009, 03:24   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

i dont know much about demons, but considering they only have invuls, banshees arent a good choice. scorpions are much better against horde armies, but i dont think i can give out too much info cause of that stupid games workshop thing, so im gonna try to keep quiet.

dire avengers with bladestorm are great against horde. if their assaulty, defend would also be a good option. if they have low morale, rangers would be good for pinning. equipping all your wave serpents with shuricannons and scatter lasers are a good combo against horde. but since there is the soul grinder and other high toughness guys, eldar missile launchers should give you good advantage against both. the autarch is great, but a farseer with spirit stones, eldritch storm, doom and fortune should work great since hes mostly about making everyone else better, while still being a good model individually.

once again, i dont know about demons, so you should probably wait until someone with some background knowledge of them replies on this.
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 05:31   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

(Are daemons considered a horde army? Maybe my regular opponent just uses high-points models.)

With T3, Eldar crumple like paper to anything stronger than an Imperial Guardsman's noogie. Daemons are close-combat killing machines (except for the Horrors) that deep strike all of their units. Given the Eldar's low toughness, the key to fighting daemons is mobility - you've got to stay the hell away from them. (You can also try to keep them the hell away from you, but this method is less reliable.)

I'm curious, why are you set on using the Autarch? In my eyes, the Farseer is a far fluffier and more versatile HQ. I concede that running two Autarchs is smart in a ninja/mech Eldar build. I just don't see him being nearly as useful in a game as small as 750 points. A classic loadout is Doom, Guide, and Spirit Stones - because they can only use two powers per turn, any more than two powers on a single Farseer is a waste of points - for shredding the beasts before they can engage you in CC. One unit of choice will be re-rolling to hit and every squad that shoots the Doomed unit will be re-rolling to wound. The Autarch simply doesn't have this sort of support capacity.

If you simply *must* have an Autarch, maybe give him a warp jump generator and stick him with a small contingent of Warp Spiders.

Do you like rolling handfuls of dice? For troops, I might suggest Dire Avengers with an Exarch, 2x Shuriken Catapults, and Bladestorm. Doom the unit and guide these guys and you'll be chewing the Warp-filth into Satanic lace so fast it'll make your head spin. Defend and the power weapon/shimmershield combo is a bit of waste in my book, if only because charged Avengers are dead Avengers when you're dealing with Daemons anyway. (And it seems wasteful to use any unit as a "tarpit" in 750 points.) I can't think of any reason to give these guys a Wave Serpent other than to stick TL-Brightlances on it (for dealing with the rare Soul Grinder or Greater Daemon) The daemons will be coming to *you*, and the Serpent's energy field won't do jack to protect it from CC attacks. Guardians are also a good choice. A Brightlance or EML with ten Wounds? Yes please.

I personally find a Wraithlord with EML/Brightlance to be really effective vs. daemons as a Sould Grinder and Greater Daemon hunter. I've never used Vypers or Falcons versus daemons, but I'm sure their mobility would give them an edge as well.

Anyway, just my thoughts for now.
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 05:53   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

i've never had the fun of playing against daemons, so i dont really know what is effective against them. i would reccomend vehicles, as i know for a fact they have almost zero ways to deal with mech. if you take vehichles use them to harry his forces as they approach, like using vypers or jetbikes to attack his troops and hopefully draw them away from your dire avengers or guardians, who can shoot the rest of his army, or move up and take objectives.
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 22:36   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

Wow, there's alot of uses for the units especially the dire avengers I hadn't considered. I figured my only shot would be to stay armored and mobile so I took three fire prisms, a wraithlord w/brightlance, a farseeer with fortune and two minimum squads of guardians one of which was in a wave serpent with twin linked bright lances. (last minute bump to a thousand points)

I found that the wraithlord worked great by tying up his greater demon most of the game while my fire prisms laid waste to his squads of hounds and bloodletters. The wave serpent did a decent job mopping up. My infantry out of sheer luck managed to make their points back in cc and just tie up his units so I could hit them one by one.

Thanks everyone for your help. I should be able to work alot of this into the rematch.
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Black Templars: 41-5-8 W/L/D
Eldar: 10-3-1
Tau: 7-3-2

Battle is a Symphony. Every soldier an instrument, Every footstep a note, Every shot a resounding bass, Every clash of swords a sweeping solo. The autarch, the general and the conductor must hear the central harmony. Know when to keep the rhythm, Know when to change key, Know when to bait and lure, Know when to explode with sheer power, Know every aspect of his work till it's creschendo builds to that inexorable and explosive climax that leaves the enemy bloody, broken and shattered. A true master creates a new melody every time and rarely falls back on old tunes.

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Old 29 Jul 2009, 03:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

Best anti-daemon unit is a squad of warlocks.

2 Str 9 attacks in CC, 4+ inv save, and attach a farseer in it, which halves enemy Daemon WS because of ghosthelm. Give one of the warlocks enhance, which improves the squad in combat. Load them in a transport or something and you have the perfect anti Daemon squad.


Otherwise due to Daemon's low saves and high toughness, you're looking for high strength and high rate of fire units. This is what Eldar excels at. I'm at uni right now so can't elaborate, but consider a trio of outflanking war walkers with dual scatter lasers. That's 24 str 6 shots from one squad, with a range of 36". (effectively 42" with the move).
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Old 29 Jul 2009, 05:57   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedmongoose
Best anti-daemon unit is a squad of warlocks.

2 Str 9 attacks in CC, 4+ inv save, and attach a farseer in it, which halves enemy Daemon WS because of ghosthelm.
isn't the ghost helm being effective against daemons from the last edition of the codex? in the farseer entry it never mentions the effectivness against daemons bit, only the 3D6 for psychic tests. and i remember that it used to reduce daemon WS in the old codex...

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"my ridiculously circuitous plan is one quarter complete!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
From a painting point of view, the eldar are great, they have so many colours and patterns, hence their battle cry "TASTE THE RAINBOW!!"
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Old 29 Jul 2009, 06:56   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

DAMMIT!


Even then, you're talking about a squad that on average hits on 3's (with enhance) and wounds on 2's. It's still a brilliant squad against most Daemons.
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Old 29 Jul 2009, 09:34   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Need help 750 points Eldar against Demons. First time with eldar.

very true, very true indeed! as someone else mentioned earlier invo saves and power weapons aren't good... scorpions, dire avengers and seer councils for the win!!
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played eldar scince 2000
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w/l/t
7/2/2

"my ridiculously circuitous plan is one quarter complete!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
From a painting point of view, the eldar are great, they have so many colours and patterns, hence their battle cry "TASTE THE RAINBOW!!"
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