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should i take harlequins?
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Old 02 Jul 2009, 07:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default should i take harlequins?

i need to know some pro and cons about harlequins cause every time i take them they seam to get mowed down by firepower if you don't take serpents with them. and i can't get close enough to my enemy to kill them.

secondly do their rending weapons get past invulnerable saves?
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Old 02 Jul 2009, 10:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

Sorry your one edition too late. They really rocked in 4th. now are okay at best.

If it rends, they need an Invulerable saves.

Two Main Cons
1) Rending was nerfed, now it's only 6's when you roll to wound not rolling to hit as in 4th.
2) The unit can no longer roll into another unit once it kills wins combat.

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Old 02 Jul 2009, 10:37   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

I think in 5th Edition, I think Banshees make a better choice to Harles.

A kissed up Harle runs what, about 21 points?
Banshees are running 5 points cheaper, carry power weapons, sport a 4+ armour save.

The only thing your gaining with Harles is the ability to glance tanks on '6's and the ability to wound high Toughness enemies some of the time and to be honest with you, I'd rather roll up some Fire Dragons and toast those high T enemies before I have to hit them in combat.
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Old 02 Jul 2009, 10:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

To answer the first point, rending does not get past invulnerable saves just normal saves.

Harlequins on the charge are still very good IMO not as good as in 4th but they still come with a lot of useful abilities.

Their pros, well read your codex and look at all the toys they have.
The cons are they are fragile, and as you've discovered T3 and a 5+ save doesn't get you very far if you get shot a lot.

If you don't want to give them a transport you just have to be careful and hope your opponent rolls badly when trying to see them, always make them roll to do this, I've known someone being out of flamer range because of a bad roll to see Harlequins!

You can always charge 6" through cover because of one of their gadgets so if you get a good fleet roll you should be able to reach combat. Bit of luck and a bit of practice with distances should get them to your target.

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Old 02 Jul 2009, 12:10   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

This has been discussed over and over again. Harlequins are very good still but they cannot be used the same they were in 4th edition. You can no longer mount them in Falcons rush forward and protect them by consolidating into other squads. They need to be used differently in 5th and a lot depends on the type of build you are using.

Okay. They are fragile. So are a lot of Eldar units. Rending is not as good as it was in 4ed. It still is good though. Harlequins are not designed to take on hordes. Okay. I will use them to take on the tough squads, MCs and some tanks.

I use Harlies in my Iyanden list as a strong counter charging component to my lists. The Veil of Tears is still potent. There is also lots of cover in 5ed and Harlies have some very good abilities to take advantage of. Add a few fusion guns to the mix and you have a squad that is able to hurt the big guys and tanks.

Harlies were not balanced in 4th editrion. Truly. All that 5th edition has done was make Harlies a much more balanced choice. It's funny. I still encounter players who think Harlies are 'cheesy' because they recall the damage they suffered at their hands in 4th edition. They can still do damage but they need to managed better now. I use them with an IC (Yriel) so I need to carefully think out my charges. The Harlies protect Yriel with the Veil but if he attacks with them they lose their Hit and Run. So each combat must be weighed out. How much damage will they do on the charge? Should I let Yriel join them or have him split off to a separate target. Are there good possibilities to take advantage of Hit and Run or should Yriel join them and add his considerable cc prowess to the charge?

Now I'm doing mathhammer with my Harlies as opposed to 4th edition where I just charged those Falcons into my opponents line and let the Harlies win the game for me. So what is the bottom line?

Harlies absolutely have their uses in 5ed. Look at your list and decide where your weaknesses lie and if these boys have a place. In an all mech/reserve list they might not be a good fit. In hybrid lists with foot slooging infantry they might be a perfect fit.
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Old 10 Jul 2009, 16:44   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

CanaBebe's post hits all but on of the most important points: the Harlequin models are totally rockin', and that alone is reason enough to field them.
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Old 12 Jul 2009, 18:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

harlequins with kisses are just too expensive in 5th with the rending nerf and the consolidation rules. I prefer using scorps now (never really liked banshees much) but if you must run harlies I think that the best tactic at the moment is as a 10-man squad, shadowseer, no kisses using someone else's serpent as a taxi. I've tested this out a few times and it has been a little more effective than with kisses (per point) but scorps are dong better now.
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Old 08 Aug 2009, 06:31   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

Now I'm surprised no one mentioned dooming a unit the harlequins are attacking. With doom you're rending a lot more than in 4th. Also with 4plus cover saves and fortune it helps them able to get to where they are needed. The problem they still have is they kill way to good and left out in the open. Harlequins can still kill at the same rate as banshees against toughness three models and excell against models that have a higher toughness.

Even at 21 pts a pop the unit is still your best close combat unit. This unit is even better than genestealers. I can't believe people are still crying about how 1 squad can't wipe out a whole army any more. Banshees and scorpions can't handle genestealers, bloodthirsters, carnifex, or any other high end close combat unit. The harlequins can handle this threat on even terms. Harlequins have 4 attacks on a charge at str 4 int seven with rending. Also the ws forvthe harlequins is better than most other models.
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Old 08 Aug 2009, 22:59   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

How to Win Consistently With Harlies

Harlies have many uses. A friend asked me to design him a competitive list and to throw out background and fluff. I toild him to start with a Farseer + Warlock council, and then add Jain Zar and a squad of Harlies. Who needs Banshees or Scorps? Then take two squads of mounted Fire Dragons. Fill your troops with DAVU in serpents and maybe some Storm Guardians mounted and finish with three Fire Prisms. Now add or subtract depending on the point level. Easy.

Harlies do not need a transport. Yes, in 4th the Flying Circus was sick. Now let them wander behind your serpents using cover and VoT and create havoc where needed. TAKE KISSES. Take two Fusion Guns. Take a Shadowseer. All else is optional ( Troupe Master/Death Jester ). Do you have a squad that really wants to take on Jain Zar and Harlies?

In truth the Harlies work well here because you will be doing ninety percent of your damage with your Fire Prisms. The Seer council is all you need to back this up but the Harlies will prove useful at times. Don't rely on good comp scores!

Wow. This is shortest tactica I've written on how to win consistently with Eldar.
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Old 09 Aug 2009, 09:47   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: should i take harlequins?

Harlequin are still quite useful, but they need serious protection. They are a massive point sink and ahve a tendency to simply be mowed down by any large number of shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf-Tau
Sorry your one edition too late. They really rocked in 4th. now are okay at best.
But they were much better back in the old days when Harlequins were an army by themselves.
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