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Strength 15 hit
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Old 30 Sep 2008, 22:57   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Strength 15 hit

While examining the BRB, I found that it is possible for the Wave Serpent, Fire Prism, and Falcon to deal a Strength 15 hit that automatically hits. By attaching Start Engines to any of the above vehicles and ramming 36", a strength 15 attack is dealt (+12 for speed, +2 for Armor, and +1 for being a tank). Because all the above vehicles are skimmers, they will automatically hit the target. While a dangerous/un-fluffy tactic tactic, I feel this move could have great potential. Please comment with comments and suggestions.
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Old 30 Sep 2008, 23:00   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

I always thought the star engine upgrade was used in a different phase and couldn't be added to the ramming...
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Old 30 Sep 2008, 23:43   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

Yeah, you use star engines in "lieu of shooting", so I would gather it must be used the shooting phase, though it doesn't specifically say that. Besides, isn't strength 10 the highest you can go?
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Old 30 Sep 2008, 23:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

Quote:
Besides, isn't strength 10 the highest you can go?
No, its just that most (if not all) weapons with a strength higher than ten are strength D.

*edit* and just because its instead of shooting, it dosn't mean it isn't at the same time. e.g. Moving flat out is instead of shooting but it is done the movement phase
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 00:04   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

As per the FAQ, the star engine move occurs on the shooting phase, so you couldn't use it as part of a tank shock. And I'm not sure where it is in the rulebook, but I'm pretty sure Froggmann is right, and you can't have a hit higher than S10 (I know it says so under the prism canon entry).
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 02:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

Per the BRB tank shock and ramming are done during the movement phase.

Per the eldar FAQ star engines are used during the shooting phase.

So you cannot use star engines to increase your ram str.

Regarding max stats the rulebook says non-vehicle stats cannot go above 10. Ramming strength is not a models stat. So yes, ramming strength can theoretically go above 10. But practically that will never happen because in order to move 24" and still hit the target the target would need to be closer than 24". So the highest strength you will be able to get is 10.

So in the end the question is moot. The highest ramming strength you will get is 10 whether you can go higher or not.

Though I suppose if they ever introduce a fast skimmer tank with armor greater than 12 then it could get higher. As far as I know there are none in the basic game.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 03:54   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

Agreed. The question is moot because you can't use the Star Engines to ram.

But let's just say for a minute that you could. Why would you want to take a return hit of S12 + (whatever you were hitting) against your skimmer? That's just suicidal!

To me, the ramming tactic is to be used when you have a stronger something bashing into a weaker something. The real damage done is going to be the difference in armour value of colliding sides and mass (if the target is a non-tank vehicle.) Speed will pack an extra punch, but it's negated by the return hit... so unless you have no weapons left and are desperate, I can't see there being much of an advantage to ram something since we only get AV12.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 04:28   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

As I previously said, this is a very un-fluffy tactic. Kamikaze runs are not very Eldar-esque. However, this ability would have Merit when facing something that costs much more than the vehicle you are ramming with. Even without the Star-engines, you are attacking at strength 11, more than any other Eldar weapon is capable of. Also, I don't have the book handy but if the wave-serpents field could make the hit back strength 8, the effectiveness of this tactic would be much greater (can someone check if the force fields work in this way?)
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 05:58   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

As per the codex, the Energy Field on the Wave Serpent only works against ranged attacks, so it is of no use when ramming or being rammed.
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Old 01 Oct 2008, 13:50   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Strength 15 hit

Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherback
As I previously said, this is a very un-fluffy tactic.
Un-fluffy wasn't my point so much as unwise from a tactical standpoint. You would have no chance to shake off the damage if you took that big of a counter-blow.
Quote:
However, this ability would have Merit when facing something that costs much more than the vehicle you are ramming with.
I'll have to disagree here. You'd be better off ramming something weaker like a non-tank AV10 vehicle like a Trukk or Land Speeder. Since the only vehicles I can think of off the top of my head that cost more than Eldar would be Land Raiders, AV12 vs. AV14 is not such a good idea.
Quote:
Even without the Star-engines, you are attacking at strength 11, more than any other Eldar weapon is capable of.
What about Melta weapons at half range?
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