Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

first attempt at army list
Closed Thread
Old 16 Apr 2005, 13:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 335
Default first attempt at army list

i figured it'd be best to get an idea of which units i'd like/need before i begin purchasing them. the list would be for an ulthwe force. as i am just starting, an attempt at a 500 point list seemed to be the best way to go.

Hq

Farseer
- cc weapon, shuriken pistol, ghosthelm, fortune

(67)

Troops

8 black defender guardians
bright lance platform
warlock, with conceal, cc weapon, shuriken pistol

8 black storm guardians

(211)

Transport

wave serpent
- twin linked starcannons

(125)

Elites

6 striking scorpions

(96)

499 points

firstly, i'm not sure if an ulthwe force requires a seer council to be present or not.. if so, then they'd tie up an awful lot of points for a 500 point army hq. secondly.. the eldar codex states that two guys operate the weapon platform, are they taken from the unit count, or do they come bundled with the weapon platform itself? if they come bundled then the first black guardian squad will have 10 members.

the idea is to have the bs4 guardians take out opposing heavy stuff with their bright lance while advancing cautiously. the wave serpent is to deliver a spread of starcannon fire to soften up any close threats before the scorps within it jump out and get up close and personal. if possible i'd throw the farseer with the scorps, otherwise i'd try and advance him with the storm squad maybe. bear in mind i'm still trying to pick up the rules. ^^;

my main concern is that as a whole, there doesn't seem to be too many troops.. i'm wondering if there's too many points tied up in hardware (in the bright lance platform and wave serpent) which would be better spent on bolstering the ranks for a game of this level.

-sin
__________________

i make my own sigs! want one, then ask nicely ^^
sinfox is offline  
Old 16 Apr 2005, 19:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orkney- SCOTLAND
Posts: 1,407
Default Re: first attempt at army list

which unit is the wave serpent for, you should incclude it in that units entry for future reference, first off, you have very very few numbers, 2 squads of 10 guardians with a weapon platform of a starcannon or missile launcher an farseer and possibly a falcon may be better, or for a cheaper alternative to the flacon try a wraithlord, however you may get critique for this.


Hq

Farseer
- cc weapon, shuriken pistol, ghosthelm, fortune

(67)

not too bad, youve kept him cheap- which is good, I recommend using a singing spear instead, no ghosthelm it sinks points, and get guide, not fortune and guide the heavy weapon platform. Your Farseer is highly vulnerable on his own, I recommend attaching him to another unit.

Troops

8 black defender guardians
bright lance platform
warlock, with conceal, cc weapon, shuriken pistol

Include the warlock in your seer council, thst where he comes from, put his points in with the farseer as his bodyguard. Conceals good, along with the farseer guiding this units gonna be a toughie.

8 black storm guardians
as a general rule, STORM GUARDIANS ARE USELESS!! sorry but they are, if you want assault- get aspect warriors, no need for them here, a guardian squad will suffice.

(211)

Transport

wave serpent
- twin linked starcannons

Interesting choice, I personally see it as too expensive for 500pt games, replace it with a falcon with loadsa goodies.

(125)

Elites

6 striking scorpions

(96)

A rather silly choice for small games, If you want an aspect warrior unit, get dire avengers, cheaper and more all-rounder. A bad choice for such a small game

Personally I would use this:

HQ
Farseer with a CC weapon, shuriken pistol, guide- 88pts

This Farseer will join the guardians to guide their heavy weapon, this will increase there effectivness

TROOPS
Guardians
10 Guardians, Missile Launcher platform- 115pts

this is a usefull all rounder unit, very shooty with the platform, especcially when guided by the farseer.

Dire Avengers
10 dire avengers- 120pts

a great troops choice if you want an aspect feel, good bs and so should be put infront of the gaurdian squad

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon
Flacon, Starcannon, Spirit Stones, Cyrstal Targetting Matrix- 195pts

a lethal killing machine, most people will have a hard time with this tank

1. You have to upgrade 2 of the guardians in the squads to be the weapon crew, then choos the gun and represent it with a model, wullla!

Hop you find this rant of mine helpful

502pts

Master Lytaing is offline  
Old 16 Apr 2005, 23:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,602
Send a message via MSN to freeman
Default Re: first attempt at army list

First of all. Don't take a falcon. Much too expensive in smaller point games, the wave serpant would be a better idea but the best idea would be a wraithlord. (who cares if people don't like it, it's not up to them what's in your army!)

Your HQ is good, don't change anything. (Unique is wrong, aslong as he is behind you troops your enemy can't hit him. (see independant character rules)

As for your troops. Yes the platform comes with 2 troops in a package (their specific rules are listed in the guardian defender profile in the codex.)
Those storm guardians are a wastse of space, points and money. (although i'm not exactly sure what you should do instead. Maybe another identicle defender squad.

Those striking scorpians are a tricky matter. If you need too drop them because they wont be very useful if they are unsopported.
freeman is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 06:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In my secret lair plotting forum domination....hehe
Posts: 3,804
Send a message via MSN to Tau-killer
Default Re: first attempt at army list

I'm afraid both of you have missed the fact that as Sinfox's army is 'Ulthwe' - its HQ is illegal. :P A Seer council must be taken - a simple Farseer by itself is not enough, at least two farseers and three warlocks are required. Yes that will be expensive - as if you give them a decent amount of wargear it will cost around 200 points. This will mean that you won't have many points left for other stuff.

My advice is: - take guardians and lots of them. Black guardians are the craftworld's greatest strength (apart from the seer council) so use them. I don't agree that you should always use defenders rather than storm squads - defenders are better although storm can be very good with a potential ws of 5 (think what a warlock can do!) Black guardian storm squads are much better than their normal guardian counterparts.

Here's a 500 point Ulthwe army I can think of:

Seer Council - 195 points
Farseer with fortune and singing spear
Farseer with guide
Warlock with augment and shuriken pistol
warlock with enhance
warlock with destructor and shuriken pistol

Black guardian storm squad - 144 points
10 black guardians with 2 fusion guns and 10 haywire grenades
1 warlock with enhance

black guardian defender squad - 161 points
10 black guardians with starcannon
1 warlock with conceal

That comes to 500 points exactly.
The enemy will have enormous problems getting rid of the seer council due to fortune. Guide will be used for guiding those shurken shots home while augment will increase the range needed if necessary. Destructor will fry infantry within short range and enhance will make the seer council nasty in cc. The singing spear can be for light tank hunting and also enemy unit killing. The seer council does take up a lot of points in a 500 point army so make the most of it. That seer council I think can do a lot and will work very well.

The black guardian storm squad will mainly be for tank hunting - with the fusion guns and haywire grenades. However they can also take care of light infantry - first by shooting (another use for the fusion guns) and then by assault - their high ws making them very nice....However beware - if your opponent isn't using a tank then then get rid of the grenades and get 4 more guardians - 2 storm squad and 2 defender squad.

The defender squad is for infantry killing - the shuriken catapults kill all within 12 inches and the starcannon comes in handy for more heavily armoured units.

Notice that I only have three different squads - seer council, black guardian defenders and black guardian storm squads. However these squads are all tooled out nicely and they all have a specific purpose which they can fufill. Always try to build your army so that each squad has a specific role to do. Eldar unit sare all good at different things so this will ensure that your army can work together as a team and do what it has to do, otherwise you get a fragmented Eldar army which doesn't work together very well.

Your original list was IMO pretty good considering that it's your first and also that you thought you could only have the single Farseer. If that were the case and you could have only one Farseer I would have scrapped the wave serpent and used the points to build up the guardian squads and the scorpion squad - the storm squad and the scorpions would support each other while the farseer would join the defender squad. I don't like using tanks in small point games - they cost too many points and I think at this small stage points should be given to infantry units.

As you build up your army to 1000 points and higher - aim first to increase the numbers of guardians. 16 in a squad is a good number to have. They are Ulthwe's main advantage so use them. Don't go down the road I see some Ulthwe players going down which is to take two small black guardian squads and then try and max out on two aspect warrior squads. Trust me - that doesn't work - it just gives you four useless squads which usually can't support each other and it leads to annhilation. Go for the guardians
__________________
I never bluff, TK.
Tau-killer is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 12:30   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,117
Send a message via MSN to arguleon-veq
Default Re: first attempt at army list

I entered my Ulthwe into a local 500pt tourney and won with it.

I'm not quite sure what was in it but it was something like this:

Seer Council:

2 Farseers: Witchblades, Fortune & Mindwar.
5 Warlocks: Enhance, Embolden, Augment. 2CC weps each.

10 Black Defender Guardians.

7 Black Defender Guardians w/ SC.

Wraithlord w/ BL & 2 Flamers.

500 pts (ish).

It faced an armoured company, a few Marine armies, other Eldar and Necrons. The most i ever lost was the wraithlord and a few warlocks.

The big squad has the speed to take any objectives and table quarters, the smaller squad can hang back and provide some fire-support. The Council and WL can take the fight to the enemy as they are both very resiliant units.

Armour IMO is a bad choice in such small games, you could lose a huge % of your force from a single shot, and in games of this size you wouldnt have much else to pull the game back for you.

Aspects in games of this size for Ulthwe i would consider a little unfluffy.

This list provides a decent amount of anti-armour, anti light infantry and anti heavy infantry.

The list could be considered beardy but it was for a tourney so i wasn't to bothered. You can pass of the WL by saying as its a big walker it makes an ideal forward unit (hence the small game sizes, its a scouting/advanced force). The council is leading a strike team to achieve a specific goal etc. There are always wasy to counter beard claims .


__________________
Brunettes and Beer.
arguleon-veq is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 12:32   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 103
Default Re: first attempt at army list

Tau-killers army seems pretty solid. However I personnally think that he has maxed out the seer counsil a bit too much. I only spend 200 points on my seer council in a 1000 point game. In my opinion it should go something like this:

Seer Council

Farseer
* * Mind War
* * Close Combat Weapon
* * Shuriken Pistol
Farseer
* * Mind War
* * Close Combat Weapon
* * Shuriken Pistol
Warlock
* * Augment
* * Close Combat Weapon
* * Shuriken Pistol
Warlock
* * Augment
* * Close Combat Weapon
* * Shuriken Pistol
Warlock
* * Embolden
* * Close Combat Weapon
* * Shuriken Pistol

Total: 150 points

This seer council has the role of unit sniping. In small games it is essential to maximize the effectiveness of each unit. You cannot spend 10% of your points on fortune and guide! This unit is 50 points cheaper and has very long range with not one, but two mind wars. Your opponent's characters and heavy weapons will be non existant.
tau aun is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 12:37   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 12,488
Default Re: first attempt at army list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
I entered my Ulthwe into a local 500pt tourney and won with it.

I'm not quite sure what was in it but it was something like this:

Seer Council:

2 Farseers: Witchblades, Fortune & Mindwar.
5 Warlocks: Enhance, Embolden, Augment. 2CC weps each.

10 Black Defender Guardians.

7 Black Defender Guardians w/ SC.

Wraithlord w/ BL & 2 Flamers.

500 pts (ish).

It faced an armoured company, a few Marine armies, other Eldar and Necrons. The most i ever lost was the wraithlord and a few warlocks.

The big squad has the speed to take any objectives and table quarters, the smaller squad can hang back and provide some fire-support. The Council and WL can take the fight to the enemy as they are both very resiliant units.

Armour IMO is a bad choice in such small games, you could lose a huge % of your force from a single shot, and in games of this size you wouldnt have much else to pull the game back for you.

Aspects in games of this size for Ulthwe i would consider a little unfluffy.

This list provides a decent amount of anti-armour, anti light infantry and anti heavy infantry.

The list could be considered beardy but it was for a tourney so i wasn't to bothered. You can pass of the WL by saying as its a big walker it makes an ideal forward unit (hence the small game sizes, its a scouting/advanced force). The council is leading a strike team to achieve a specific goal etc. There are always wasy to counter beard claims .


No one could call you beardy for including a Wraithlord when it's compulsory to include a Seer Council.
Looks like a good list, although I'd probably use this list:

2 Farseers: Singing Spears, Fortune & Mindwar (one each).
3 Warlocks: Enhance, Embolden, Augment. 2CC weps each.

10 Black Defender Guardians.

5 Black Defender Guardians w/ SC.

Two Vypers with EML's.

500 pts (ish).



I just like playing fast forces I guess.
__________________
KJ - Friend, Brother, Ork. Never forget you mate.
Restayvien is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 14:16   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 335
Default Re: first attempt at army list

thanks for all your input ;D

i didn't include a council in the initial list as it seemed a bit much to be spending 30%> of your points on the hq (so i was semi-hoping it wasn't a requirement). seems that the council is actually rather powerful however, which is nice.

i'd always figured it was a good idea to place a warlock(conceal) with black defenders who are using a weapon platform. are they still somewhat surviveable without the warlock present?

i'm also curious, how effective is mind war in practise? is it something which really shouldn't be left out of your council?

i take it that in Restayvien's list, the singing spears are going to be used for destroying heavier vehicles, starcannon for power armoured troops, i'm still not too sure on the use of the missle launchers though.. in the codex you have two options for missles: krak and plasma. it looks like the krak are more powerful, but the plasma forces a pinning test.. are the missle launchers for controlling your opponent's regular troops?

it looks like my first purchases will be a seer council and a whole lot of guardian defenders. ^^

-sin
__________________

i make my own sigs! want one, then ask nicely ^^
sinfox is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 14:25   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 12,488
Default Re: first attempt at army list

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinfox
thanks for all your input ;D

i didn't include a council in the initial list as it seemed a bit much to be spending 30%> of your points on the hq (so i was semi-hoping it wasn't a requirement). seems that the council is actually rather powerful however, which is nice.
It is a bit much isn't it? But it's something all us Eldar players have to deal with. ;D

Quote:
i'd always figured it was a good idea to place a warlock(conceal) with black defenders who are using a weapon platform. are they still somewhat surviveable without the warlock present?
It is really, and without them survivable isn't really a word I'd use no. I didn't include them because that list was a bit rushed, I'd have to sit and think about it a bit more carefully if I really wanted the list to be competetive.

Quote:
i'm also curious, how effective is mind war in practise? is it something which really shouldn't be left out of your council?
It's not nearly as effective as it looks on paper, because it's so short ranged (hence why Augment is so essential), however it can be very handy just before charging that unit with a powerfist etc

Quote:
i take it that in Restayvien's list, the singing spears are going to be used for destroying heavier vehicles, starcannon for power armoured troops, i'm still not too sure on the use of the missle launchers though.. in the codex you have two options for missles: krak and plasma. it looks like the krak are more powerful, but the plasma forces a pinning test.. are the missle launchers for controlling your opponent's regular troops?
The Singing Spears are indeed intended to take out any enemy armour, and they still pack a punch in combat too.
Star Cannon? I haven't included one.
The Missile Launchers are great, don't worry, you don't have to choose one type of missile or the other when you take the Eldar Missile Launcher, you automatically get both. You just have to declare which type you are using when you fire them each turn.
Vypers with EML's are very versatile because they can take out weaker troops or vehicles depending on the situation.

Quote:
it looks like my first purchases will be a seer council and a whole lot of guardian defenders. ^^
It's a good place to start!
__________________
KJ - Friend, Brother, Ork. Never forget you mate.
Restayvien is offline  
Old 17 Apr 2005, 15:05   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 335
Default Re: first attempt at army list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien

5 Black Defender Guardians w/ SC.
i thought w/ SC meant with starcannon.. may be wrong though *L*

i'm still a little unsure about the weapon combinations available for the council

a seer with a spear will have less attacks than one with a witchblade combination right? but they would gain a 12" attack which is suitable for denting armour. would the warlocks with 2 cc weapons have more hand to hand attacks than a cc/pistol combination also? i'm wondering if a witchblade / cc weapon combination is possible also?

it seems pretty difficult to comprise a 500 point list which can do all the things you want it to ><

-sin
__________________

i make my own sigs! want one, then ask nicely ^^
sinfox is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Army List Attempt, 500 Points ScorpiusTheReaver Dark Eldar 5 23 May 2010 22:21
first attempt at a ork army list- 1000 quickcut Ork Army Lists 6 17 May 2008 11:41
Biel Tan Army List Attempt 1k Redemption1 Craftworld Eldar 3 08 Feb 2007 09:46
1st attempt army list pettsy The Inquisition 4 05 Apr 2006 09:05
First Attempt At Army List sambo Space Marines 10 08 Mar 2006 21:42