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Sample Ulthwe Lists:
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Old 25 Mar 2005, 23:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Sample Ulthwe Lists:

I'm putting these here incase Rezzy decides to do what has been done in the IG board.

I have been playing Ulthwe and Harlies for about 5-6 years so have a fair bit of experience with them, as these are the only 2 Eldar forces i use ive decided to stick to these two. Ive lost once with my Ulthwe (mainly at 1000pts) in 100+ games and i am yet to lose with Harlequins although i have only had around 20 ish games with them. EDIT: I'll do the harlies in another thread easier that way.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

[size=10pt]
Ulthwe : 1500Pts
[/size]

HQ:

Seer Council :

Farseer: Eldamari: Witchblade/Fortune/Pistol
Farseer: Ertia: Witchblade/Guide/Pistol
Farseer: sonqueel: MindWar/Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Enhance/Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Embolden/Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Augment/Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Pistol,CCW
Warlock: Pistol,CCW

: 297pts

Avatar : 80pts

Heavy Support:

Wraithlord: BL/2 Flamers : 120pts

Falcon: StarCannon, ShuriCannon, Holofield : 195pts

2 War Walkers: 2 Star Cannons each: 200pts

Troops:

12 Guardians(inc weapon crew): BL
Warlock: Conceal : 161

12 Guardians(inc weapon crew): BL
Warlock: Conceal : 161

10 Defender Guardians:
Warlock: Witchblade, CCW and Destructer : 121pts

3 Rangers : 57pts

Elites:

5 Warp Spiders : 110pts

Total: 1502 Points
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Old 25 Mar 2005, 23:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq


HQ:

Seer Council :

Farseer: Eldamari: Witchblade/Fortune/Pistol
Farseer: Ertia: Witchblade/Guide/Pistol
Farseer: sonqueel: MindWar/Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Enhance/Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Embolden/Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Augment/Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Pistol, CCW
Warlock: Pistol, CCW

: 297pts

Avatar : 80pts

The seer council is there mainly in a support role, they will cast guide on nearby units most probably the warwalkers or falcon. They will also help out with fortune, this can either be cast on a squad if they really, really need it but will be used predominantley on the council itself.

The basic warlocks have been included in so that i don't have to take off a useful psycher when a few die to any firepower coming their way.

They should also be able to do reasonably well in CC as they will dish out alot of high WS high I attacks.

The Avater has been included for an extra combat punch, he also draws alot of firepower. He can be used as a counter assault unit if he stays with your firebase or he can advance with the more aggressive elements of the army.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq

Heavy Support:

Wraithlord: BL/2 Flamers : 120pts

Falcon: StarCannon, ShuriCannon, Holofield : 195pts

2 War Walkers: 2 Star Cannons each: 200pts
The WL will provide the usual role of drawing heavy weapons fire, he can also torch light infantry with its flamers and tie up most infantry units in the game due to its high T. He can also go hunting other small units of tough targets like obliterators. It's BL will add to the anti-armour fire-power in the army.

The Falcon should prove very difficult to destroy when it moves hence the weapon set. As only one weapon is over S6 it can fire all weapons when it moves 12". It can deal out a possible 9 shots a turn so will be great against any kind of infantry, even if they are heavily armoured. Plus at a push it can still be used in an anti armour role as its primary weapon can hurt the front armour of any tank and the Falcons speed will allow it to bring the lighter weapons to bare on the rear/side armour of enemy tanks.

The WarWalkers will also be used obviously in an anti infantry role, also if any combat squads are reaching your firebase and don't have any high S models in the unit (orks without a Nob for example) they can at a push engage with these units.

Another reason for including the Walkers and Falcon is that they are Guardian crewed, and as we all know Ultwhe relies heavily on it's Guardian militia.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq


Troops:

12 Guardians(inc weapon crew): BL
Warlock: Conceal : 161

12 Guardians(inc weapon crew): BL
Warlock: Conceal : 161

10 Defender Guardians:
Warlock: Witchblade, CCW and Destructer : 121pts

3 Rangers : 57pts
The troops section has a large amount of Guardians for fluff reasons. Still they are one of the best units in an Eldar army.

The Black Guardian squads have been given anti-armour weapons as the Falcon and WarWalkers can deal with massed infantry (as can Shuri. Catapults).

They are concealed to ensure they are pretty durable and have quite a few models in each squad to make sure that they do get quite a few turns using the lance. They will inmost battles provide the bulk of your firebase but as the enemy advance always remember to step up and unload your shuri. cat. shots, if you get charged without getting these shots in first you have wasted the unit and have obviously made a huge mistake. Never underestimate BS 4 Shuri. Cats.

The regular Guardians will be used in a more offensive role, they can go horde hunting with their Shuri. Cats. and the Destructer power and they can also hunt armour due to the singing spear. I have opted for Defenders rather than Storm as i believe the extra shuri shot to be more of a benefit than an extra attack. People will say that you will get more than one extra attack through the course of the combat but lets face it if you don't do enough damage with the first shots and then the charge, they are going to lose the combat pretty quickley anyway.

The 3 Rangers can pin enemy units and due to their infiltrate ability can set up in terrain in a table quarter and just hold it for the game, as they will often be ignored.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
Elites:

5 Warp Spiders : 110pts
These have been included to harass enemy infantry as they can easily rapid fire and retreat out of charge range of most units. Their good armour saves should protect them from most weapons and they can also take down vehicles due to the ability to get at back armour.
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Old 26 Mar 2005, 06:01   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

Well...not much to say here:

I can't really see anything wrong with your army at all ;D
You evidently know exactly how Eldar works and which units are best suited for what and I'm not surprised that your failure rate is less than 1%. I'm especially glad to see that you've spent a healthy amount of points on the seer council but have also got plenty of guardians - this is sadly often a rarity in Eldar armies...
I am a little unsure about the usefulness of the 3 man ranger squad, as with their 4+ to wound they will kill extremely little and with their poor toughness and save they will die ery quickly but your tactics in infiltrating them to hold a table quarter is also sound as the opponent probably will ignore them until it is too late.
Happy playing and many more games may you win
(Can't wait for the Harlequins )
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Old 26 Mar 2005, 06:37   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

Good army list just a couple complaints ;D: 1) use the frikkin' extra point! Why no just give that farseer with witchblade a pistol! 2) I don't really like that defender guardain squad without a platform or conceal as it will get slaughtered by basic infantry weapons. I wouldn't give the warlock a singing spear either as you have plenty antitank and would waste it or destructor over the course of a game. 3) Last, this is just me, but I don't like giving warlocks in seer council embolden as they already have LD 10, but if it works for you then go for it. You must be a brilliant tactician then when you play with only one loss, because that list is definitely a fluffy non-powergaming list. However, it is still a pretty effective one .
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Old 26 Mar 2005, 17:02   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

All the council have 2CC weapons just forgot to add it in.

The warlock has a singing spear (although it could just as easily be a witchblade as he won't throw it very often) as the council will rarely come into contact with enemy armour in order to use their and as it is an agressive squad they will undoubtedly be approaching the enemy armour base (particularly as is often the case there are just a few enemy vehicles left with most of the infantry bieng destroyed). I also have aweful luck with BL's i can never seem to kill anything with them.

Embolden is there because getting run down is one of the few ways to easily destroy the high points cost council, particularly when facing enemies that affect LD such as some crons and chaos units.

Yeh my one loss come at 1000pts against Iron Warriors (pretty cheesed out), this was when reapers were used instead of a Falcon (as reapers now pretty much suck). I was over confident, made simple mistakes because of it etc. The IW list had:

2 Oblits
2 Oblits
Vindicater (mutated hull)
Basalisk (mutated hull)
Tooled out DP
5 man squad with las and plasma
Another squad but more versatile.

My BL's couldn't hurt the vehicles now matter how many shots i fired, my wraithlord got killed in combat by oblits when the WL charged (missed all attacks). So generally a bad game.
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Old 26 Mar 2005, 18:15   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

I was talking about the warlock in the guardian squad, but if you have awful luck with BLs then I guess it pays to be prepared. ^-^. I forgot about units which lower leadership like crons or assassins. But I still don't like that guardian squad as it just take two firings from a tact squad to cripple them. And they won't be able to do much anyway if they get ignored as the warlock will have to get into rapid fire range to use any of his weapons. You pretty much have a very expensive close ranged tank hunting squad. I would take out four guardians and the singing spear and give them a starcannon and change destructor to conceal if you can find the points. But since your the master tactician it isn't too big of deal as they probably fit some sort of tactical role in your overall schem of destruction .
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Old 26 Mar 2005, 18:33   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

I have to agree that they are very fragile, but lethal whenthey get close, they will have to utalise cover well (shouldn't be too difficult as difficult terrain doesnt affect FOF), plus i'm hoping they will be ignored as they won't be doing any damage untill it's too late for the enemy.

Also as they won't lose FOF due to no havinga platform they can take table quarters easier and get into the enemy depo zone for more VP's.
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Old 27 Mar 2005, 11:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe and Harlequin Army Lists:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
Also as they won't lose FOF due to no havinga platform they can take table quarters easier and get into the enemy depo zone for more VP's.
Yep that's good. It can be very annoying realising that your guardians can't FOF because they've got a weapons platfom with them. This has often left my guardians as sitting ducks...
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Old 27 Mar 2005, 23:58   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe Lists:

Not really much I can add here (sorry, I've been away for the past few days).

The only problem I can see that army having is against long-ranged attacks (as the longest ranged weapon in your force (unless you decided to include those Dark reapers) is 36", although admittedly, that's pretty high for the Eldar.
I can see an artillery-heavy IG army doing you a lot of damage, but luckily those are quite rare (not a high ratio of millionaireseasants is there? ).

I wouldn't make many changes, but if I were to make any (and most of them just come down to personal preference) these are what they would be:

- I'd get rid of the three Rangers to free up those 57 points, giving you a bit more flexibility when it come to spending.

- Using 10 of those points I'd give the Falcon a Spirit Stone, those things are invaluable.

- Another 5 points would go into upgrading one of the Bright-Lance Heavy Weapon Platforms to an Eldar Missile Launcher, which would make the squad a tad more versatile.

[Later addition]
- I'd reduce each of the two larger Guardians squads sizes by two (removing 4 Guardians), these allow a much more powerful addition later on.
[/Later addition]


- Seeing as you are using the smaller Guardian squad as an assault (not combat) squad, I'd go the whole hog and reduce the Guardian squad size to 5 (which brings the total number of free points to 83 if my calculations are correct - not including the 4 removed Guardians from the Defender squads), (or why not make them Storm Guardians and include some Flamers/Fusion Guns and grenades?) and that way they can fit into the Falcon.
The Falcon would soften the target with the Shuriken Cannon (assuming you moved a long way you couldn't use the Star Cannon the same turn) thus making the Guardian's work easier. Also, the extra protection and speed the transport offers would mean the squad would be more likely to survive with only 5 members.

Assuming you have done all of this (including changing the squad to Storm Guardians - and assuming you've given one of them a Flame Thrower, and one a Fusion gun, and all of them Plasma and Haywire grenades) you'd now have 51 points left spare, which I'll leave you to spend as it means you can add equip/models wherever you like (although I'd suggest beefing up either the Warp Spider squad, one of the two main Guardian squads, or giving one of the Farseers Eldritch Storm.

After making those changes you would have;
Lost:

-One Bright Lance
-Three Rangers
-5 Defender Guardians

Gained:

-A Spirit Stone
-An Eldar Missile Launcher
-A fully kitted-out 5 man Storm Guiardian squad
(accompanied by a Warlock with either Enhance, which would be my choice, or Destuctor, which would add another template weapon to the squad) with special weapons and grenades, which can now ride in the Falcon.

And 51 points to spend wherever you like. 8)
Also, with the Guardians in the Falcon, they can easily capture table quarters, fufilling the role of the late Rangers!

If you did take out those 4 Guardians I mentioned earlier, you could use those (51 + 42) 93 spare points to buy a third War-Walker with Star Cannons (you'd be 7 points-ish over the limit though).

What do you think?
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Old 28 Mar 2005, 20:46   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sample Ulthwe Lists:

I really like the idea of getting an extra War-Walker and getting spirit stones for my Falcon, but i dont like storm guardians and am a fan of having a small ranger squad. So i'm undecided.

I'll post again when i make a decision.
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