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Fire dragons vs. wraithguard
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Old 10 Sep 2007, 17:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

I've been trying to find a useful role for wraithguard and have so far failed to do so. their wraith cannon is the most powerful weapon I've ever come across even if the range is a bit limited but then again a fusion gun can pretty much do the same thing the only difference is that I can purchase 2 firedragons for less than 1 wraithguard so is there a point to taking them?

KQD
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Old 10 Sep 2007, 17:29   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

Wraithguard are far stronger and tougher. the weapons are similar in application, but the wraithguard will last a lot longer and can smash things in assault. I don't like them because they rely on fragile widdle warlocks to get over the 'wraithsight' zone-out rule, but the wraithguard themselves are 'elite' of the the 'elites'.
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Old 10 Sep 2007, 19:25   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

Hi Professor Diz,

Give this a read first and mull it over a bit. When you have some more clear strategies/ideas in mind- let's discuss.



- Yriel
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Old 11 Sep 2007, 01:55   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

Firstly, I strongly recommend reading Yriel’s link. This is the definitive treaty on the use of wraithguard, it inspired me to invest in them and I couldn’t be more pleased with the results.

Despite the apparent similarity in their short range high power weaponry, wraithguard fill a dramatically different role to dragons.

Dragons are typically employed in a ‘snakes on a plane’ style setup as heavy armour assassins. Mobilised with a tank they drop next to a high value target and sacrifice themselves to ensure its destruction.

In this capacity wraithguard are overkill. Their guns are no more effective the dragons’ and they typically will cost more than the ‘high value target’ they are seeking to destroy. Their comparative advantage here lies in their resilience. They can take out the target and then contest its position until help arrives.

IMO this is not the primary role for wraithguard. Although resilient when deployed in isolation, wraithguard become implacable when supported, ideally by a fortunesear and counter charge unity. You will not receive better value for fortune than when cast on a unit of wraithguard, you save a 35pt model with each successful rerole. This more than makes back the points you spent on it, very quickly.

The value of such a durable unit for the eldar can not be overestimated. Keep them advancing and they will draw fire away from your t3 aspect warriors. As Yriel tells us, a five man unit requires;

138 bolter shots from Space Marines, or Gauss Rifles shots from Necrons.

They also warp your opponent battle plans, walk a unit across the battle field and they will repel high value units (tanks, heavy infantry and monstrous creatures) for an eighteen inch radius! That is a big circle! This can be used to great effect to channel units into dakka or armour traps.

Essentially, if you want to kill a heavy target use fire dragons if you want to protect your own units and force your opponent to your game plan, use wraithguard.

Additionally, I disagree with Centurion’s opinions regarding warlock. Their cc prowess and 2+ wounding weapons complement the wraithguards shootyness, their warlock powers improve the wraithguard’s already formidable stat line and they form part of the same unit, hence benefiting from the guards toughness. They are not weak but integral to the potency of the unit.
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Old 11 Sep 2007, 04:39   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

+1 karma for SanJuan's post.

(Not that I fully agree with it, but it just deserves one for a new member)
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Old 11 Sep 2007, 07:05   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

I don't need your charity! I appreciate it though
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Old 11 Sep 2007, 09:04   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

Wraith guard are great, but when one wraithguard model costs $20 or more (AUD) they become very impractical so I use fire dragons.
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Old 11 Sep 2007, 12:15   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

i would love to use wraith guard, but they are so damn expensive.

fire dragons, its best to keep them mounted because unlike wraithguard, they are weak T3, not a bad armour save, but heavy bolters will cut them down in double quick time, plus there guns are short ranged too.

they make great kamakarzi units, so its best you keep them small (5 or 6 in number), this keeps the points down and ensures no overkill and wasted points. i take two units of 6 in my 1500 pt list and they are deployed via wave serpent.

the best tactic i have found out through experience, is to charge them full pelt at the most expensive enemy unit or the unit thats likely to cause you most problems and pray to the dice gods that you survive the enemy shooting and/or combat, then debus and melt away (i obviously protect the wave serpent with shooting near units and taking out heavy weapons, shaking/stunning tanks).

its easy to make there points pack for a small group of fire dragons, they cost just over a 100pts, for 6, so taking down a predator will make there points back easy as would taking down more or less any marine unit at that. they are much weaker against horde lists it has to be said, but every army has a prize or key unit, be it synapse to nids or command squad for guard, no matter the points, its worth taking them out and fire dragons are good for the job.

but as a word of caution, i dont expect my fire dragons to survive the enemies next turn, because if they have achieved there objective, this will have caused mental anguish to the opponent and they will want to 'deal' with them, i have seen it time and again, they will shoot them, if that fails try 'n rip them limb from limb in combat. but remember they are cheep and to some degree expendable, although its not wise to throw them away needlessly, every unit should have a key roll or two in your list.

to surmise:
take fire dragons if you want a cheep unit, to take out enemy key units, they will not let you down, they need supporting (as do all eldar units), they are cheaper in economic terms as well.

in the end its your call, and i would suggest you play both units, maybe proxy the models, just to see what takes your fancy.

as for Wraith guard (see yriels link), i have never used them, i have played them and they where a pain but nothing some lascannons and assault cannons couldn't handle.

-Rob



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Old 11 Sep 2007, 15:46   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Fire dragons vs. wraithguard

As an opponent of the Eldar I know I have learned to treat the 2 units in different ways.

In my local meta I see these units in these roles:

The Fire Dragons pop out of a transport and blast one of my units, I have to shoot them with Destroyers or Immortals.

The Wraithguard hook up with Eldrad and walk the field towards me, I have to bury them in Scarabs.
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