Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Quick Questions
Reply
Old 27 Feb 2007, 04:00   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 320
Default Quick Questions

1. A farseer has doom and mind war. Can the farseer doom a unit and mindwar another model of a different unit?

2. A farseer has fortune and guide. Can the farseer fortune one unit and guide another?

3. Can a farseer fleet after using a psychic power?

4. A unit of daemons is summoned. Can they proceed to move and assault in the same turn as they are summoned?
__________________
wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiii
canderous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 04:30   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: FL, Orlando
Posts: 497
Default Re: Quick Questions

to the best of my knowledge

1 and 2. With spirit stone you can use 2 skills
3. Fleet of foot? i would say no if your using Eldritch Storm or Mind War
4. ? Dont know

To be the best of my knowledge .. so feel free to correct me .. peers
__________________
*Insert generic quote here*
Redemption1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 04:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ILLnois
Posts: 422
Send a message via Yahoo to uriel
Default Re: Quick Questions

all the questions besides number four are correctly answered by redemption1. the last one yes.
__________________

uriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 09:28   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,361
Send a message via MSN to Farseer Cold-Beer
Default Re: Quick Questions

No, but he is asking if you can target 2 different squads... Ive always played no... if it is a yes, then im going to butcher the people I play with...
__________________
Farseer Cold-Beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 11:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: Quick Questions

*breaks out the 40K Bible*

1 & 2 - Psychic powers follow the same rules as shooting. So Farseer may not use powers against separate units. I'm not sure how this effects using "friendly" powers as they're not technically "attacks". However, this would also mean that the Farseer can't Doom one unit and then attack other. Because the rules say that it has to be specified otherwise - but if not the rules follow all normal shooting rules. The Farseers have a special LOS specification but that's it. Yes, it sucks, but that's RAW, chaps.

Also, I'm unsure of how that would effect a Farseer wishing to use, say Fortune & Mind War in the same turn.

3 - A Farseer may fleet after using a non-shooting phase psychic power. Both the shooting phase powers & fleet are used instead of shooting and therefore cannot both be used in the same phase.

4 - unsure - that's a Chaos question. Different board.


Edit
After some thought - I'm going to say that you can't use Fortune & Mindwar in the same turn...ever. Likewise any power that targets a friendly unit may not be used in the same turn as one that targets an enemy unit. If you use two powers in the same turn - them must target the same unit.

The rule about targeting, then attacking, however are different. All psychic powers must be targeted together. But if you use Guide & Fortune, you could still assault another unit. Shooting might be a different case, however. The rules clearly state that all "attacks" must target a single unit. Hmm, very complicated. This would kill the Doom / Guide combo too.
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 12:53   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 552
Default Re: Quick Questions

Hmm, I am pretty sure it states that all powers are used at the start of the turn. Unless it specifies that the power is to be used in the shooting phase. It says this in the Codex not the BBB. This would not effect the doom guide combo.
Autarch_Kalesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 13:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: Quick Questions

Still, psychic powers must follow the shooting rules even if they happen at the beginning of the turn (i.e LOS, all targeting the same unit, etc). "Unless otherwise stated". The Eldar Codex doesn't "otherwise state" that Farseer powers can target multiple units.

This is unless the shooting phase rules only apply to each psychic power independently (i.e. Power X targets only one unit at a time). But that doesn't quite sit right with me.
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 13:24   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,096
Default Re: Quick Questions

The targeting rules apply to the shooting phase.

Doom, guide and fortune aren't used in the shooting phase, they're used at the start of the turn and aren't even attacks. You pick a unit and if its in range it's effected.

Mind war and Eldritch storm are used in the shooting phase and treated like a normal shooting attack.

If you use mind war or Eldritch storm you may not fleet.

Daemons may move and assault on the turn they are summoned.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04
Falstead, you're a genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Gah! Not a silly Canadian. Can't Falstead ever be wrong?!?!? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
My god.... the sarcasm there nearly shorted out my computer screen Nice.
Falstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 13:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: Quick Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
The targeting rules apply to the shooting phase.

Doom, guide and fortune aren't used in the shooting phase, they're used at the start of the turn and aren't even attacks. You pick a unit and if its in range it's effected.
Where can I find the shooting phase specification? I'm reading (under the Psychic Powers entry in the rulebook) that "psychic abilities" (no specification as to which ones) are subject to those rules. It says later that most abilities are shooting phase abilities, but it doesn't say that non-shooting phase abilities don't fall under the same rules restrictions.

If there's another rules entry that I'm missing, please let me know. I checked the FaQ and there isn't any mention in there. I'm curious because there are some SM abilities which allow them the ability to augment their close combat, so if the targeting is an issue (i.e. can't target and charge separate units) why make the rules?
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Feb 2007, 15:38   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Yriel of Iyanden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,180
Default Re: Quick Questions

Hi folks,

Some very interesting questions- at the heart of which is the proper use and targetting of Eldar Pscyhic Powers. For simplicity I'll use Fortune and Mind War, but feel free to substitute for this argument:

Fortune = Doom, Guide

Mind War = Eldritch Storm

Note that there are two classes of Eldar Psychic Powers: Those used at the start of the turn, and those used in the shooting phase. For purposes of my argument the fact that powers are separated into two phases is key.

Also of note is that Spirit Stones allow the Farseer to use two psychic powers per turn, which even overrides the rules for shooting (for example, Eldrad Ulthuan can Doom, Mind War, Mind War- which is in effect allowing him to 'shoot' more than once).

Powers used at the beginning of the turn are NOT subject to the rules of shooting or assaulting (they occur in neither phase)- they are only subject to their own restrictions and that of the Farseer casting them. Therefore- Doom, Fortune, and Guide are not restricted by standard targetting rules (as technically, the Farseer's unit has yet to engage an enemy unit). All three of these powers have only a range restriction (and friendly restriction in the case of Guide and Fortune). Doom can be used on ANY enemy unit within range lacking an armor value- period. This is one of the marked advantages for these powers.

I tend to regard buffs/debuffs used at the beginning of a turn/game as being a seperate phase that occurs before the movement phase. For example, checking for pigdok injection at the start of the game would happen in this phase (and does not affect the pigdok's ability to engage a unit in subsequent shooting/assault). Doom, Mind War, and Guide are "buffs/debuffs" in the same sense, except that they occur at the start of each Eldar turn.

Also- consider that the specific rules for Farseer powers override the "general" rules for psychic powers in the BGB. Mind War is a power that is used in the shooting phase, and requires a valid target within LoS, but further overrides the BGB rule about shooting specific members within a unit. So while aspects of using this power follow some standard rules for shooting, the specific written rules for this power overrides the standard "selecting a target" rule.

I can definitely understand the confusion though. Farseer_Emlyn makes an excellent point about Librarian psychic powers, which again reinforces my idea of the specific psychic power rules overriding standard rules.

__________________
Yriel of Iyanden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
the quick questions... striogi Tau 52 02 Dec 2009 23:17
2 quick questions megagnat1 General 40K 3 30 Apr 2009 19:22
2 quick questions Shae2994 Tau 8 23 Mar 2009 03:02
Quick Questions DakkaDakkaDude Tyranids 4 19 Aug 2007 14:36
Two quick questions ookazi49 Forces of Chaos 2 28 Oct 2006 05:27