[uriel]

Well i showed the list i made a couple of days ago to some friends and they gave me some new input. so I'm trying a new one to boot. The list is fully mechinized everything moves fast with lots of skimmers for weapon dilution. Here's the list 1.5k

FARSEER- jetbike, mindwar, guide, stones, spear

11 GUARDIANS- scatter laser
WARLOCK destructor, spear
WAVESERPANT- twin linked brightlance, stones

11 GUARDIANS- scatter laser
WARLOCK destructor, spear
WAVESERPANT- twin linked cannons, cannon upgrade, stones

6 DIRE AVENGERS- exarch, dual catapults, bladestorm

6 JETBIKES- 2 cannons

VYPER- scatterlaser

VYPER- starcannon

VYPER- starcannon

FALCON- starcannon, stones, holo-fields

FIRE PRISM- cannon upgrade, stones, holo-fields

should be right at 1500 pts. as you can see lots of skimmers 7 total. seer casts guide one the most destructive one at the time and uses mindwar to remove heavy weapons from units. there should be so many skimmers it makes it hard for heavy weapons to decide what to down and with the skimmer rule in effect along with defensive upgrades they might down a skimmer in a turn while lossing 1-3 units a turn. deployment is the key in the army along with speed and rapid repositioning. the army should focus on a weak flank and take it apart with the whole force attacking 1/4 to 1/3 of their army and destroying it in one turn. any comments and suggestions welcomed! thx for your time I'll check back on the post sometime friday morning.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

If any of your vehicles are going to carry troops, you must have vectored engines on them, you will be shafted if you don't.

[Farseer_Emlyn]

I'm not sure if I agree with the vectored engines assessment. 1) They're expensive. 2) If Uriel is going to play his mech army like I plan on playing mine (move quickly turn 1, deploy turn 2, use the serpent as a mobile assault gun for the rest of the game) the enemy should only really get 1 chance to shoot at you. That's where you cross your fingers and hope that the energy field holds. After all, there's a 50/50 chance of a glancing hit (no penetrating because you're moving so fast) which is only going to crash you on a 5-6. After that, there's still a chance your Guardians could get out. (I know, my cold-heartedness is obvious).

Of course, if he wanted the points, he could just switch his Vypers & Falcon to Scatter Lasers and he'd be able to buy the Vectored engines. I like the Scatter Lasers a lot more (especially on the Falcon since you already get the Pulse Laser).

Uriel, do you play against a lot of Marines or Necrons? Having Conceal on your Warlocks might be a better choice.

And again, I think the Doom/Guide combo is the best for any Eldar list who is going to run lots of shooting. Especially with the BS3 and the relatively weak Shuriken Catapults.

Anyway, nice list Uriel. I like.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

And, the minute his guardians get a forced disembark (believe me, it ain't that hard) they are pinned for a turn, and gonna get slaughtered. VE are a must.

[Farseer_Emlyn]

Understood completely. I'm not downplaying the usefulness of VE. I just don't think they're necessarily a must item. They cost XX points each. That's an awful lot IMHO for something that isn't going to get you any VP's. Sure, it might keep your Serpent alive. It might keep the squad alive.

But you're paying XX points for something that will help you with a 1 in 6 chance on the Vehicle Damage Chart (6 is automatically a wreck). So, the max strength you'll ever be facing is an 8 with 1d6 penetration. That means you will only face a glancing shot (skimmer moving fast) on a 4+. A 5-6 will crash you. With VE, only a 6 will crash you.

Anyway, I'm not against using them (VE's) at all. In fact, they might make it onto my Serpents. Honestly, it would be very easy to make XX points in Uriel's list (dropping a Guardian from each squad, changing Starcannons to Scatter lasers, etc).

[uriel]

Well last night when i was workin a 24hr shift and was on some down time I made a new list. everything is mobile with 7 skimmers good troop choices as well all i have to do is put together and paint 6 DA's, 1 falcon, and 1 vyper.

FARSEER- fortune,jetbike, singing spear 118 pts

6 FIRE DRAGONS - 96

10 GUARDIANS/ scatter laser -95
WAVESERPANT/ TL brightlance, stones -145

8 DIRE AVENGERS/ exarch with dual cats -113
WAVESERPANT/ TL- cannons,cannon upgrade, stones -120

6 DIRE AVENGERS/ exarch with dual cats -89

6 JETBIKES/ 2 cannons

VYPER/ starcannon -70

VYPER/ starcannon -70

VYPER/ scatterlaser -60

FALCON/ scatterlaser, cannon upgrade, stones, holo-fields -185

FALCON/ starcannon, stones, holo-fields -185

should be just under 1500pts comments and suggestions welcome!

[Farseer_Emlyn]

I don't know. It could go either way. You're very mobile there. But there's not much staying power. Heavy armor might give you a problem. One or two Lemun Russ tanks would definately put a damper on the party.

Your squads are also relatively small. I know you're going to put them in the Falcons and that's why. But you've got 36 infantry with 3 squads starting under 10 figures. That means even two casualties is going to be bad news for any unit.

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but Vypers are sorta clipped without CTM. They can definately be mean, still. But they aren't what they once were.

I think I'd have to revise my previous assesment and side with Thor. If you're going to run this list, I'd go back and find about 150 points and give all of your tanks Vectored Engines. Not because they're all that great, but with only 36 troops, loosing a vehicle would be devestating (1/6 of your infantry down in one shot). I'd also give the Fire Dragons and Exarch and try to get some Exarch abilities one the FD's and DA's.

Here's the idea, if you're going to an elite, mobile strike force then you need two things.
1) The units you field need to stay alive...because they're few.
2) The units you field need to be able to kill things quickly and efficiently.

I'd also think about some higher strength weapons. Don't get me wrong, I love the scatter lasers. But an armor value 13-14 vehicle is going to rain on your parade. Your opponent will know this and will go for your Brightlance WS first and your Fire Dragons second. Don't count on rear or side shots...you can't. A Land Raider Crusader isn't going to give you the option.

[uriel]

you're right it is real small numbers for the most part, but what mech army isn't small in numbers. sorta of subject, but I play ether hybrid or mech Tau. and the object with them is your small in numbers, but you pick your fights. with that said I'll take the fight where my opponent is weakest at on the board. just have a third of your army fighting against an opponents whole army is not a good thing. another thing is if you play it right you can get those side-rear armor shots against armor when he sees a swarm of units go for his tank you limit what he should do which will open him up for those shots. against landraiders i really haven't had the much trouble against them just because alot of people have target the brightlance serpant and didn't see the dragons or the farseer come up on it. Anyway I'll try it out and let you all know how it goes this is just a work in progress. Any other idea's would be great if you have them. I'll look in to working in some vector engines in some of my games as well to see how well they will do.

[Autarch Uthlanar]

I think I know why Emlyn doesn't think that the VE are necessary, for when you get into high tune with using eldar, why use the vectored engines, we are the masters of skimmers etc.

Most Saim-Hann players now how to move their skimmers, I play Saim-Hann, darn I need to put that in my army thingy.

They are necessary at times, but you should be able to move your skimmers effectively, the necessary are spirit stones and holofields, mak'em invincible.

The bright lance serpent eek!! The serpents job is to deliver its load and protect it! Get some scatter lasers or something with more dakka, you'll want to have a chance to hit, half chance 2 times, so one turn it doesn't hit, next it does. Same with wounding tanks. Half chance.

Remember that :P

And remember I suck at math so maybe someone who had more skillz with math etc.......