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Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 05:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Okay so my friend has been redesigning his Chaos army from Khorne to undivided and he wants to play a 1500 point game with me this weekend when I get home, and I'm kinda worried and need some advice on which of the three Ghost Colors I should use. His list is going to look something like this:

Chaos Lord with Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Flight, Terminator Armor, Dread Axe (ignores invulnerable!)
3 Obliterators
5 squads of 8 marines with a lascannon
1-2 havoc squads with 4 heavy bolters
0-1 predator - autocannon and heavy bolters
1 defiler (mutated hull)

I'm pretty worried as I have not really faced any marine armies set-up like this yet (surprising, yes, i know) and I'm really worried about his Chaos lord in particular.
Here are my options:

[size=12pt]Belac Arithdris - The Way of the Red Shadow[/size]
HQ Autarch Mear Gorashtann "Swift Jesting Ghost"- Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance - 140

Elites Harlequins (10) - Kisses + Shadowseer - 250

Troops Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch w/ Twin-Cats and Bladestorm - 152
in a Waveserpent - TL-Starcannons, Shuricannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines - 130
Troops Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch w/ Twin-Cats and Bladestorm - 152
in a Waveserpent - TL-Starcannons, Shuricannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines - 130

Fast Shining Spears (3) - Exarch w/ Withdraw - 152

Heavy Fire Prism - Holo Fields, Spirit Stones - 160
Heavy Fire Prism - Holo Fields, Spirit Stones - 160

Total: 1496 pts

[size=12pt]Belar Orkantainn - The Route of the Green Spirit[/size]
HQ Farrseer Dorch-Edi "Unseen Colors" (Represented by Eldrad Ulthran) 210

Elites Harlequins (10) - Kisses + Shadowseer - 250

Troops Wraithguard (10) - Warlock w/ Conceal - 396
Troops Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch w/ Twin-Cats, Bladestorm - 152

Heavy Dark Reapers (5) - Exarch w/ Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot - 217
Heavy Wraithlord - Scatter Laser, Starcannon - 140
Heavy Vibrocannons (2) - Warlock w/ Conceal - 140
Total: 1505 pts

[size=12pt]Belah Addan-carrec - The Path of White Souls[/size]
HQ Farrseer Dorch-Edi "Unseen Colors" (Represented by Eldrad Ulthran) 210

Elites Harlequins (10) - Kisses + Shadowseer - 250

Troops Wraithguard (10) - Warlock w/ Conceal, Singing Spear - 399
Troops Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch w/ Twin-Cats, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent - TL-Starcannons, Shuricannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines - 165

Heavy Fire Prism - Holo Fields, Spirit Stones - 160
Heavy Fire Prism - Holo Fields, Spirit Stones - 160

Total: 1496


Which do you think is more promising? Knowing how static he will be I'm partial to the White Souls because of the fire prisms (large blast template S6 AP3... mmmmm) in combination with the tough wraithguard unit so that he will fire at the fire prisms and not the guard, but I'm weak in the number of scoring units I have. I like the Dark Reapers in the Green Spirit list. Plus I feel like vibrocannons will be invaluable if he does decide to take the defiler (i can redeploy my vibrocannons to get in perfect position!) not to mention I know his squads will be lined up for some nice vibrocannon volleys in the green list, but I feel the wraithlord won't earn his points back and just waste points, but I can't find much else that will fit with the theme of that list. I like the Red Shadow list the most I think, because it is very fast and I will be able to literally run around his static marines. I'll have fire prisms to take down his troops in swarths and I have my autarch and shining spears to cause havoc provided I can find some nice cover. My problem with the red list is that I'm vulnerable if he takes the defiler, although the precision of having two mounted avenger squads plus fire prisms I feel will make it easy to shoot-to-kill. He was going to take plasma originally but he decided to nix them in order to take more havocs and tool up his lord, but that's good because now I don't have to worry quite as much if I take wraithguard.

I really try not to tailor lists to my opponents but in order to shrink down to 1500 points I had to beef up my wave serpents, and I want to try out starcannons now that they're only Heavy 2, to evaluate if they're still a viable option.

I'm really torn between the lists, so any suggestions would be more than welcome!!! Just keep in mind that I need A) 8-10 Harlequins as "compulsory" B) any suggestions to a list should at least try to keep the theme in mind (i.e. speedy = red, "static" = green, mix = white)
Otherwise I could really use some suggestions, even as to how I should deploy etc. I don't think I'll be able to survive in a straight shoot-out with his marines, so I'm leaning more towards a mobile eldar list, and hopefully flank him. Still, I really want to have some sort of firebase. I basically need some grounding on which direction to head. Thanks in advance!
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 08:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Well well well.. Let's see.

His list seems somewhat competitive, but doens't pose you much trouble I'd say. If hes havocs are only heavy bolters, your vehicles shouldn't really worry about them. Also lascannons aren't that useful against eldar, those autocannons are what you are afraid of. Which means, the obliterators are a primary target I'd say. The prince isn't that dangerous if you deploy correctly as your harlequins can charge and take care of him, remember to position them correctly!

After pondering this a bit, I'd say go with the red one. Why?
1) Your wraithguard won't last that long against all that HB fire, they are somewhat safe cause of their T6 but HB's are STR5 you'll need to make saves, and with 35 a piece i don't think they are really woth taking.
2) Neither won't your Wraithlord against all those lascannons.
3) You have mobility with the red one
4) Nice AP3 templates
5) Shining spears a counter assault towards obliterators and the Lord
6) Autarh for the defiler hunting
7) And a nice amount of close range fire goodness and some star cannons : )

Yes, so I'd definedly go with the,
Belac Arithdris - The Way of the Red Shadow

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Win: 305
Draw: 71
Loss: 112
Total: 488 games

Though I walk through the Valley of Shadow and Death, I fear no evil.
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 15:53   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Hmmm thanks for the advice, I was starting to lean towards the Red Shadow too.

However if using the other lists with the wraithguard, I was going to attach Eldrad and use fortune, which should keep the wraithguard alive for a while as long as they can make their saves (plus a 55% chance to pass a cover save if shot by anything with good AP or if the battle cannon manages a lucky shot). Plus I was thinking the wraithguard potential to a) instant-kill his lord b) penetrate marine armor easily (~5 MEQ dead per volley), and c) destroy the predator or defiler if they get close enough. But I do agree about the wraithlord, he will definitely not earn his points back, as he will be a high priority target for those lascannons...

So I can elimate the Green Spirit, but I'm torn between the Red Shadow and White Souls, because the White Souls list also has the speedy prisms with the AP3 templates (or regular fire to wipe out those obliterators!), but has the wraithbone wall, which I will admit, I haven't used yet but really want to try using

Suggestions to change any of the lists are welcome too
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 16:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

I'd go white and use Eldrad to redeploy from his heavy squads. March the WG up a flank using some terrain to avoid a round or two of fire, and counter his lord with your harlies holding the WG's flank. The prisms can go around killing off any weapon squads that can fire on you, and the Oblits. DA's can be a mobile responce force. Mostly I like it because I have not yet had a chance to field my 10man squad of WG with harlie support and 2x prisms, and would love to see what it can do.

The red lists looks very nice as well, and is pretty close to a list I massacred a shooty SMurf with two weeks ago.
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 18:15   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

I will try to take pictures when I play and write up a battle report. Just be warned that most of my models are not painted yet... I have a fire prism that's a mess because I bought it for $20 on ebay that I need to strip of paint and then prime for painting. I'll try to use as many of my painted harlies as possible, because I think they'll be my only painted models besides my fire prism...
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 18:33   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitestar333


However if using the other lists with the wraithguard, I was going to attach Eldrad and use fortune, which should keep the wraithguard alive for a while as long as they can make their saves (plus a 55% chance to pass a cover save if shot by anything with good AP or if the battle cannon manages a lucky shot). Plus I was thinking the wraithguard potential to a) instant-kill his lord b) penetrate marine armor easily (~5 MEQ dead per volley), and c) destroy the predator or defiler if they get close enough.

Spoken like a true Ghostwarriors player.


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Old 15 Dec 2006, 19:37   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitestar333
Chaos Lord with Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Flight, Terminator Armor, Dread Axe (ignores invulnerable!)
Although I know nothing about Eldar, his Chaos Lord is illegal. Chaos Lords with Daemonic Stature cannot take Terminator Armour. When you give a Lord Terminator Armour he can only select wargear or gifts with a (*) next to them, Daemonic Stature and Daemonic Flight do not have a (*) next to them. Which means he cannot take Stature or Flight.

So I would consult him about that...
 
Old 15 Dec 2006, 19:57   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton

Although I know nothing about Eldar, his Chaos Lord is illegal. Chaos Lords with Daemonic Stature cannot take Terminator Armour.
Maybe he means Daemon Armour?

I've sent nearly this exact Chaos Lord back to the Warp (one had a Berserker Glaive, and Daemonic Aura vs. Wings) at least a dozen times with Wraithguard. I suppose it's even worse now- back then I was using a Warp Spider team with Withdraw to lure him to wraithcannon death, now the Harlies can do it by themselves...hehe.


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Old 15 Dec 2006, 22:09   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Quote:
I've sent nearly this exact Chaos Lord back to the Warp (one had a Berserker Glaive, and Daemonic Aura vs. Wings) at least a dozen times with Wraithguard. I suppose it's even worse now- back then I was using a Warp Spider team with Withdraw to lure him to wraithcannon death, now the Harlies can do it by themselves...hehe.
Ha! Ha! Ha! ;D The best way to dispose of over powered Lords.

Anyway, if the Lord is going to be a Daemon Prince don't worry, they are easy to dispose of. I would say Harlies, Wraithguard would best suit this role. You see Chaos Lords are like an Elite or Heavy Support choice, they are an expendable weapon. Most people who use Daemon Princes tend to attack the nearest thing in order to avoid being shot to ribbons.

This is quite common place, so deny him targets! You really will regret letting a Daemon Prince in amongst your lines. Plus he is the ONLY combat orientated unit, and the ONLY mobile unit, so he has rather foolishly put all of his combat ability and movement ability into one unit. Exploit this! Kill the Daemon Prince, it is his only source of C.C muscle, remove that and you should pretty much win.

*Sigh* why do people do this? These Chaos lists, personally suck. Putting so much responsibility into one unit is just plain silly, oh well. Once you have removed the Daemon Prince use your Harlies and engage his Obliterators, they are very resilient to enemy fire and are geared up to the teeth! And the only unit, I believe that is capable of removing them is Harlies.

The Chaos Marine & Havoc squads are rich pickings for any C.C unit you have, why? No Champion! 80% of the time an Asp. Champion can change the course of C.C but since as if he's gone for the cheap gun platform squad they are way to easy to flatten. So you should not worry about these much.

As for the Predator that can be dealt with a Bright Lance easily, a lucky hit should end it no problem. The same for the Defiler, they have a weak armour value so Bright Lance that too.

That is a pretty easy list to beat, he relies way to much on firepower, lacks any mobility, his counter assault is non existent and the Daemon Prince has to much responsibility as a unit, to fulfill both as a C.C unit and a mobile unit, Daemon Princes are tough, so just use your superior mobility and run circles around him. So defeating him should be simple, just make sure you get the right units into the right places!
 
Old 15 Dec 2006, 23:48   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Upcoming Game 1500 pts - Need advice!

Quote:
lacks any mobility, his counter assault is non existent
Which is definedly the reason take the red one. You easily outmanouver him.
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Win: 305
Draw: 71
Loss: 112
Total: 488 games

Though I walk through the Valley of Shadow and Death, I fear no evil.
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