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Old 29 Nov 2006, 12:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default loophole

I was reading the swooping hawk grenade pack and the skyleap rule, and I thought this would be helpful. It says grenades can be used on any model on the board, but never says they have to be there, it has to be centered on the enemy, kinda like a nerfed orbital strike. The skyleap ability, it says you are deepstriking in s they were reserving, so you can still use your grenade pack almost every turn and kill a nice amount of light infantry. ;D
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 12:40   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

What exactly are you saying here? Are you suggesting you can Grenade-Pack units that aren't deployed yet? (which you cannot do...)


And yes, it is stated clearly in the rules that you can re-use the Grenade Pack. This is not a loophole, this is Rules as Written.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 16:25   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

Skyleap does have a couple of amusing loopholes though:

1 - Due to the way the Skyleap rule is written and how the deepstrike rules are written a unit may arrive on the board, use its grenade packs and then immediately leave the board again before the shooting phase, allowing them to return in the next turn and grenade drop again. This effectively makes the Swooping Hawks "invulnerable" provided they don't screw up their deep strike positioning.

2 - A unit that is falling back may skyleap. They are removed from the board and can land anywhere in the subsequent turn (dropping grenades when they arrive). Even a unit that cannot rally (due to being below 50% or because enemies are to close) can Skyleap.
My big question about this is does a unit that was falling back before it skyleaped still continue to fall back the turn after landing again?
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 22:31   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

What do you mean by every turn!?The only team that can constantly deepstrike are necrons. >
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 22:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

WRONG. Its a special rule for Swooping Hawks.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 22:55   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

well thats the nice thing on swooping hawks, just the chance of rolling a bad roll when getting back in ;D What The Guv said
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What exactly are you saying here? Are you suggesting you can Grenade-Pack units that aren't deployed yet? (which you cannot do...)


And yes, it is stated clearly in the rules that you can re-use the Grenade Pack. This is not a loophole, this is Rules as Written.

I ment when I said they don't have to be there, they can deepstrike next to terminators and shoot the grenades at space marines that are 72" away.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 02:03   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

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Originally Posted by Autarch Uthlanar
I ment when I said they don't have to be there, they can deepstrike next to terminators and shoot the grenades at space marines that are 72" away.
Yeah, and? The rule has always been like that, although why you'd want to land next to a squad in Tactical Dreadnaught Armour without tequila encouraging you is beyond me.

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What do you mean by every turn!?The only team that can constantly deepstrike are necrons. >
Drop the agro. Swooping Hawks can repeatedly and fairly reliabley re-Deepstrike every turn with Skyleap, especially with the benefit of an Autarch on the board. And Necrons aren't the only ones, look at Daemonhosts.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 02:14   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

Welcome to 4th edition rules, where Necrons no longer rule over everyone...

And Swooping Hawks have a different rule than veil of Darkness (Which I think you're refering to). They leave the table entirley. VoD just pushes you around.

And seriosuly, skyleap isn't that hot. Its pretty expensive, thats a bummer. Also grenade packs miss pretty often, are S4 and AP5. This is opposed to having your entire squad shoot their guns instead... You end up doing just as much damage if you have a shoot out, and if you feel like having a lil more fun, trade that super risky skyleap for the sunrifle. Potentially can turn the tide of the game much better than any grenade pack.

And by saying risky, heres a statistical layout for you. (With Autarch, best chances possible. Missing All together implies the large blast being moved so nothing it originally covered remains so, in short moving 4 or more inches in any direction)

Turn 2:
Reserves (33% chance of failure)
Deep Strike (33% chance of landing on target, high chance of missing all together)
Grenade Pack (33% chance of landing on target, fair chance of missing all together)

Turn 3 - 6:
Reserves (17% chance of failure)
Deep Strike (33% chance of landing on target, high chance of missing all together)
Grenade Pack (33% chance of landing on target, fair chance of missing all together)
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 14:42   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

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Originally Posted by thetrojansheep
And seriosuly, skyleap isn't that hot. Its pretty expensive, thats a bummer. Also grenade packs miss pretty often, are S4 and AP5. This is opposed to having your entire squad shoot their guns instead... You end up doing just as much damage if you have a shoot out, and if you feel like having a lil more fun, trade that super risky skyleap for the sunrifle. Potentially can turn the tide of the game much better than any grenade pack.
Hawks are, simply put, not worth it if you're going to fire their guns. They have lasblasters. These things are barely better than a guardsman's flashlight. They have a 12 inch range with those lasblasters. So, absolutely anything you shoot is going to shoot is going to be able to have the choice of whether to shoot you back in rapid-fire range, or assault you - whichever is more advantageous to them.

A full unit of 10 Hawks with their lasblasters are looking at killing one-and-a-half whole marines. For your 200 point investment in them. Please tell me you're not serious about thinking this is anything like a good idea. Because, and let's assume there were only 6 marines to begin with, the return fire is going to kill 2 hawks. And, the hawks cost more than bolter marines.


How is skyleap risky? It's one of the safest tricks in the whole game. I can take my 250 point unit of hawks, deepstrike anywhere on the table, twelve inches from the edges or any opponents, drop my grenades, and skyleap out again on the same turn. If I kill one model over the course of the game, my unit has done more to my opponent than my opponent did to that unit. Skyleap is the ultimate is victory point preservation. Your opponent can never, ever kill your hawks because they're not on the table to be destroyed. That's victory points they simply cannot earn. That's a scoring unit that you get to drop again on the last turn to claim or contest an objective. How can that be bad?
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 14:45   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: loophole

Swooping hawk lasblasters have a range of 24" and they're assault weapons >

You can move your hawks their full distance and shoot their full range still, making them a very flexible unit that can pump out a lot of firepower (especially with a delicious Sun rifle)

The one downside is that all those shots are only strength three (though the AP got a bump in the new codex, guardsmen beware). However the volume of fire, high ballistic skill and doom can all help make hawks quite a dangerous threat.
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