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1650 pt army up for review
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Old 30 Dec 2005, 18:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default 1650 pt army up for review

As some of you may know, my brother is making a Eldar army and wants me to do all of the grot work(Making army list). This is my first Eldar list so constructive criticism is taken.

1650

HQ
Farseer w/ witchblade, Eldritch Storm, Fourtune, Guide, and Mind War * * 155 pts
Phoenix Lord Karandras * * 165 pts

Elites
10 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire Grenades * * 190 pts

Troops
15 Guardian Storms w/ plasma and krak grenades one w/ fusion gun and one w/ flamer * * 157 pts
15 Guardian Defenders * * 120 pts

Fast Attack
3 Jet Bikes one w/ Shurikan Cannon * * 125 pts
1 Vyper w/ scatter Laser, Holo-field, and Spirit Stone * * 90 pts
5 Swooping Hawks with Exarch w/ Web of Skulls * * 137 pts

Heavy Support
Falcon w/ Bright lance, Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field, Star Engines, Vectored Engines * * 210 pts
Fire Prism w/ Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines * * 190 pts
Wraithlord w/ flamers and Bright lance * * 120 pts


TOTAL- 1644 pts


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -Da Boss
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Old 30 Dec 2005, 21:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Someone will probably correct me on this, but this is what I think with my (limited) knowledge.

Eldricht storm isn't really worth the points, I can't really say why, but this is just what I've learned from reading and stuff.

I don't think storm guardians are that good, so if possible go with some plain old guardian defenders.

Since you have a SH squad, try and get susstained assault for the exarch.

That's all I can really comment on though.
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Old 30 Dec 2005, 22:29   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

He is right, Eldritch storm is not worth the points it is a total waste. Warboss, here is some advice for the list. 1. Eldritch storm is a no, no. 2. A fusion gun and flamer is not as good as giving your squad of stormies a particular task. A. tank hunting, B. horde controll. If you choose A. give them haywires and fusion guns, if you choose B.) give them 2 flamers and stick with the nades you got. Also, stormies not in a wave will get you no where. You can try, but for an unexperienced player like your lil' bro, they will get no where. Also if you go with the horde control, give them flamers and a warlock with witchblade with destructer. 3. Fire Prisms are great, but don't expect to get more then 2-3 shots of a game for they seem to draw lots of fire after the first shot. 4. Make sure you attach Karandras to the SS or he is also pointless. Do give the SS an exarch with stealth so they can infiltrate, otherwise they will get no where without fleet of foot. 5. If you feel like it, do the conversion work and put your Farseer on a jetbike and give him a singing spear and guide so he can add to the resilience of your jetbikes. 6. Brightlances are nearly pointless on a Falcon because you only get one bs 3 shot. Also that means if you move more than 6" you have to choose between pulse laser and brightlance, I prefer pulse laser. 7. Either use your wraithlord as a distraction, or give your opponent something else to shoot at while he advances up the field to get into CC.

Well, heed my advice, tell your lil bro good luck with Eldar they are my fave!!!
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Old 30 Dec 2005, 22:52   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

What!? Eldar defense squad guardians are 8 points? I though they were ten or something.
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Old 31 Dec 2005, 02:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Nope, they only ten with plasma nades (+2 per model)
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 23:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warboss Kalazaclawh
As some of you may know, my brother is making a Eldar army and wants me to do all of the grot work(Making army list). This is my first Eldar list so constructive criticism is taken.

1650

HQ
Farseer w/ witchblade, Eldritch Storm, Fourtune, Guide, and Mind War * * 155 pts
Phoenix Lord Karandras * * 165 pts

Elites
10 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire Grenades * * 190 pts

Troops
15 Guardian Storms w/ plasma and krak grenades one w/ fusion gun and one w/ flamer * * 157 pts
15 Guardian Defenders * * 120 pts

Fast Attack
3 Jet Bikes one w/ Shurikan Cannon * * 125 pts
1 Vyper w/ scatter Laser, Holo-field, and Spirit Stone * * 90 pts
5 Swooping Hawks with Exarch w/ Web of Skulls * * 137 pts

Heavy Support
Falcon w/ Bright lance, Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field, Star Engines, Vectored Engines * * 210 pts
-Field, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines * * 190 ptsFire Prism w/ Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holo
Wraithlord w/ flamers and Bright lance * * 120 pts


TOTAL- 1644 pts


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -Da Boss
Warboss,

* * *Lets go unit by unit, my replies will begin with --:

HEADQUARTERS:
Farseer - Farseer w/ witchblade, Eldritch Storm, Fourtune, Guide, and Mind War* * *155 pts
--He lacks focus...* *A Seer can only use one power/round.* Loading up with all four is 100 points better spent elsewhere.* On another note he has a witchblade, but no shuriken pisto.* For the difference of a point you gain +1A.* This seer is a man in search of a mission, so lets give him one:
1)* Scorpion Seer - A personal favorite of mine is to pair a fortune/witchblade/pistol/ghosthelm/Runes of Witnessing Seer with a squad of striking scorpions.* Against small arms the scorps gain a "twin-linked"* 3+ save.* This makes them almost immune to small arms fire.* For even more fun mount this squad of death on a Wave serpent.* This seer makes a fine battle buddy for Karhandras, who flourishes when backed by twin-linked saves and the Seer's daemonbusting goodness.

2)* Targeting Seer - Seer with Singing Spear/Guide makes a fine gunnery officer for your grav tanks, and other support troops.* Making that Fire-Prizm's cannon effectively twin-linked makes it a very deadly unit.* A guided falcon is even more dangerous, as it can generate up to 12 S6+ shots/round guided by Targeter-boy.* The deadlyness of guided guardian defenders is not to be underestimated either.

3)* Eldar Assassin - A seer with Mind-War, and any armament makes a fine assassin.* He can pick off heavy weapons, hidden powerfists, weak-minded ICs etc.* Mind-war is the ONLY power I reccomend tacking on to guide/fortune as a powerful backup weapon.* Even here, if you are not using fortune every round, it does you little good.

4)* Mad Biker - Seer on a Jetbike with fortune/Singing Spear/Runes of witnessing/Ghosthelm = Biker Gang Leader of doom.* Your bikes gain a twin linked 4+ save, making them very resielient.* Add in a Conceal/Singing Spear Warlock on bike and you have a 5+ invul save as well:* Presto!* Eldar Termies on Speeeed!* I reccomend no less than 6 guardian bikes for this config so you can place two shuriken cannons and add the warlock and seer for a squadron of 8.* This gives 4 "meat-shields", 2 anti tank spears, (S9 vs. vehicles whoot!) 2 SHuriken cannons that can turbo-boost for a 4+ re-rollable invulnurable save.* Wreaking havok anywhere on the board by round 2.* *;D

There are other possibilities, but this should give you a starting point.

Karhandras the Shadow Hunter:*
--Arguably my favorite Exarch, but just for fluff reasons.* (Most of the others can outfight him due to powerfist slowness...* *:'( )* He does well by leading a squad of Scorpions.* For best effect he should be WS mounted to get him into action fast, this way he can be joined by a "Scorpion Seer".* (See Above)* As a "poor man's" alternative you can give the squad exarch stealth to get him and his into battle quickly.* You must be careful in this case though, as you are unlikely to be in combat before round 2 in even the best of circumstances, and his squad will draw a huge amount of punishment.* karhandras is best used as an assassin.* The stackable wound rolls for the biting blade can hammer even a termie-armored SM commander to death.* (My largest combo to date:* 27 wounds vs. Aun'Shi.* * ) Though other Pheonix Lords can make their poits back better, my craftworld's fluff finds him at the forefront of my larger battles. I hope you enjoy his exploits as much as I do.

ELITES:
10 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire Grenades* * *190 pts
--With the points saved from the seer you can afford to make some adjustments here.* An Exarch is almost mandatory.* Remember that even though Karhandras has stealth, he cannot confer it to this squad, as an IC can only join a squad after it's deployed on the board due to setup rules.* You still need a stealth exarch to infiltrate this squad.* Don't pass up this chance to embed a hidden powerfist in the squad either.* Remember:* Karhandras can split off to do his own damage and join other squads as the game progresses, and beyond that two fists + haywire grenades will shatter even necron monoliths on the assault.* I again advise the use of a Wave Serpent for these bad boys.* (Twin-Starcannons, Sprirt Stone)

TROOPS:
15 Guardian Storms w/ plasma and krak grenades one w/ fusion gun and one w/ flamer* * *157 pts
--Like the Seer, this squad lacks focus.* It's size lends it well to a CC role.* It's fusion gun and krak grandes are anti-vehicle.* It's flamer is anti-horde.* Let me give you some scenerios for this squad too:

1)* Falcon Flamer Death Squad - 5 Storm Guardians, 2 with Flamers, + 1 Warlock with Destructor, witchblade, and Pistol.* See Yriels bat reports for examples of how a squad like this kicks tail.*

2)* Falcon Tank Hunters - 5 Storm Guardians, 2 with Fusion Rifles, Haywire Grenades, + 1 Warlock with Singing Spear.* This grants you falcon some much needed high-power anti-tank weaponry.*

3)* Crack Suicide Squad - 14 Storm Guardians, Grenades + Warlock with Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol, and Enhance.* Use cover to your advantage, and use as a countercharge unit, or to aid the scorpions.

Again, just examples.

15 Guardian Defenders* * *120 pts
--Not bad.* I'd add a Warlock with Witchblade, Pistol, and Conceal to maximise survivability.

FAST ATTACK:
3 Jet Bikes one w/ Shurikan Cannon* * *125 pts
--This army is based on an Eldar battleforce box isn't it.* (Nothing wrong with that, the force comp. gives it away though.* )* This small jetbike squadron will not prove that useful.* For the points you could have 2 more vypers, or a wave serpent for your scorpions.* I'd keep these guys off the field until you can bulk up their unit a bit and give it psyker support.* (See the farseer entry above)* Jetbikes are a deadly and flexible unit, but they don't perform as well as other units at this level.* If you must use them, have them support your grav-tanks.

1 Vyper w/ scatter Laser, Holo-field, and Spirit Stone* * *90 pts
--The vyper is a fragile thing, and all the defense items in the world will not change this.* Rather than a holo-field/SS combo, I'd use a crystal targeting matrix (Same Points) to perform pop-up attacks.* 1)* Hide behind* area terrain.* 2)* "POP" "over" the terrain.* (See rules on skimmers in the Rule Book) 3)* Blast the c**p out of your foes.* 4)* "pop behind" the area terrain again.* 5)* Rinse and repeat.* This keeps the Vyper out of LOS, and for some reason people will spend a ridiculous amount of resources to obliterate one of these...

5 Swooping Hawks with Exarch w/ Web of Skulls* * *137 pts
--Nasty little CC unit.* I usually keep six hawks, but 5 should be OK for the purpose.* A little known fact:* The plasma grenades can be used as a S5 grenade against vehicles.* This is great for taking out that basalisk, whirlwind, or even the backside of a leman russ.* Keep this in mind to maximise the utility of your hawks.

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Falcon w/ Bright lance, Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field, Star Engines, Vectored Engines* * *210 pts
--Brightlance + Falcon = Bad.* If you move over 6" (fast enough to call all hits to glance) you cannot fire both the BL and the Pulse laser.* This limits you combat ability.* Far better for the same cost to use a Starcannon so you can fire all weapons at once.* Not to nitpick, but if I did my math right this tan is only 195 points.* Unless you plan to do a lot of troop drops into cover, I'd lose the Vectored Engines.* Your 210 points then buys you a Falcon with Starcannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stone, Underslung Shuriken Cannon.* This nets 7-9 S6+ shots at 24+ inches away on (aguably) the toughest tank in the game.* Yum!

Fire Prism w/ Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines* * *190
--Never liked this tank.* It's an anti-tank platform that hits 50% of the time and is really no more effective than brightlance against many targets.* For the points, I'd rather have a twin BL wave serpent with 75% accuracy.* Just my 2 cents.* If you want to use this tank make sure it's in a position to fire every round at something worthwhile.* It nees to score back 190 points after all.* ** Hopefully it will get fixed this summer in the new codex.

Wraithlord w/ flamers and Bright lance* * *120 pts
--Solid anti-everything platform.* Use him as bait for best effect.* Enemy fire better suited for your grav-tanks and scorpions can be absorbed by this guy.* He is the decoy that is hard to ignore.*

OVERALL IMPRESSION:
--It has the looks of a solid list, but will require some refinement before being combat worthy.* Several units need defined roles in your Eldar Blitzkrieg, and the list lacks a real theme.* This will hurt you as it gives you no inuitive focus for your tactics to follow.* Your brother needs to look each unit "in the eye" and say what do I need you to do?* This way each unit blends in to the harmonious whole that is a successful warhost.* This list lends itself well to being updated into a 1850 point tourney list as well.* *

Good Luck,
Ged of Paragon



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Old 03 Jan 2006, 05:12   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Ged, that was an awesome post.

The only thing I can think of to add would be an alternate use for the Vyper, in case one would want to save some points:
Use it "plain" with just the Scatter laser. This will make it an inexpensive flanking or sacrificial unit, with which to try and target enemy vehicle's side armour, where S6 can go a long way.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 05:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

I'll go through this unit by unit:

Farseer w/ witchblade, Eldritch Storm, Fourtune, Guide, and Mind War * * 155 pts
--All of the psychic powers? Yikes. Since you can only use one per turn, I would suggest taking Guide (for support purposes), or Fortune, and Mind War (in a more aggressive role) If you go with the latter, mount the Farseer on a Jetbike with a singing spear, and use him to support any close range/assault units you have.

Phoenix Lord Karandras * * 165 pts
--If you want a Phoenix Lord, I suggest you go with Barroth Cry of the Wind. Attach him to your SH unit, and watch your enemies fall before you.

10 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire Grenades * * 190 pts
--These guys need an Exarch. Either give the Exarch stealth, or pop them all in a Wave Serpent, with Spirit Stones. Arm the WS for the role the Scorpions perform. If they are for Tank Hunting, give the WS a TL Bright Lance. If they are for infantry killing, lose the Haywire Grenades, and give the WS a TL Star Cannon.

15 Guardian Storms w/ plasma and krak grenades one w/ fusion gun and one w/ flamer * * 157 pts
--Same as above, pick a role. Either way, these guys need a WS stat. reduce the squad size, and add a Warlock. If they are for anti-tank, take two fusion guns, give the Warlock a Singing Spear, and the WS a TL Bright Lance. If they are for hoard control, take two Flamers, give the Warlock Destructor, and give the WS a TL Star Cannon.

15 Guardian Defenders * * 120 pts
--No support Platform? Give them one, preferably one with multiple shots, to offset their average BS. Maybe also give them a Warlock with Conceal.

3 Jet Bikes one w/ Shuriken Cannon * * 125 pts
--In a semi-competitive list, Jetbikes aren't the best idea. Their abilities don't quite warrent their high point cost. If you must take them, give them a Warlock with Conceal, and 'Fortune' them using a nearby Farseer.

1 Vyper w/ scatter Laser, Holo-field, and Spirit Stone * * 90 pts
--Might be a little pricey for what it does. It might be a good idea to give it a Star Cannon, instead of the Scatter Laser.

5 Swooping Hawks with Exarch w/ Web of Skulls * * 137 pts
--Give the Exarch Sustained Assault, and watch your opponent's horror when you roll around of 15, or 20 hits. Maybe add another Hawk or two for less chance of the squad being wiped out.

Falcon w/ Bright lance, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field, Star Engines, Vectored Engines * * 210 pts
--Like Ged said (hey, that rhymes...) Bright Lances should not be on a Falcon. The Starcannon is a better option by far.

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines * * 190
--Definitely not worth the points. Make it go away, it's scaring me :'(

Wraithlord w/ flamers and Bright lance * * 120 pts
--Perfect, don't change a thing.

General comment:
You might want to start by making smaller lists first, and working your way up to bigger ones. That way, you can make a smaller "core" army, and expand on that. This usually leads to stronger, and more effective lists.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 18:11   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Death Jester Darconian,

Thanks for spotting that on the swooping hawks. I don't know how I missed it.

Warboss,

As the man says, the points spent on Sustained assault for the exarch will more than make themselves back against most opponents. Like the multi-wound combo from Karhandras, the multi-hit combo from a WebofSkulls/Pistol/Sustained Assault Swooping Hawk Exarch is just plainly ridiculous. I've had a single swooping hawk squad wipe out as many as 3 Space Marine Tactical Squads in a single game with this. My best combo with "Scaur, the Black Ghost" (My Exarch that has this configuration) has been 30 hits against a 10 man SM tac squad resulting in the total annihilation of the squad in one assault! The best part is that your exarch is not limited to a 2" kill zone with sustained assault. If the squad can hit it, he will hit it.

TTFN,
Ged
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 02:37   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1650 pt army up for review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warboss Kalazaclawh
As some of you may know, my brother is making a Eldar army and wants me to do all of the grot work(Making army list). This is my first Eldar list so constructive criticism is taken.

1650

HQ
Farseer w/ witchblade, Eldritch Storm, Fourtune, Guide, and Mind War 155 pts
Phoenix Lord Karandras 165 pts

Elites
10 Striking Scorpions w/ Haywire Grenades 190 pts

Troops
15 Guardian Storms w/ plasma and krak grenades one w/ fusion gun and one w/ flamer 157 pts
15 Guardian Defenders 120 pts

Fast Attack
3 Jet Bikes one w/ Shurikan Cannon 125 pts
1 Vyper w/ scatter Laser, Holo-field, and Spirit Stone 90 pts
5 Swooping Hawks with Exarch w/ Web of Skulls 137 pts

Heavy Support
Falcon w/ Bright lance, Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field, Star Engines, Vectored Engines 210 pts
Fire Prism w/ Shurikan Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines 190 pts
Wraithlord w/ flamers and Bright lance 120 pts


TOTAL- 1644 pts


-Da Boss

Some of the things I said has probably been mentioned, but none the less.

Farseer: drop eldritch storm, its just useless period. Eliminate either fortune or guide (I'd suggest fortune) and slap on a spirit stone. Now he is at his full potential. For 1 point give him a shuriken pistol so he gets the +1 attack in CC u assumedly want him for with that witchblade.

I assume Karandras is going with the scoprions, hence the lack of exarch, that's okay then since i think Karandras has infiltrate already.

Give both your storm and guardian squad a warlock. For defenders take conceal.

Make your storm squad either Warlock with singing spear, 2 fusion guns, conceal

Or

Warlock with destructor, 2 flamers

First one's anti troop, second anti armour. You might want to slim them down a lot, normal storm guardians aren't that good period no matter how many of them tehre are. I'd slim them down to 5 witha warlock and load them on the falcon for specialized missions.


A 90 point scatter laser? Think carefully on this, your vyper's open topped and armour 10. With a vyper, its better just to opt for CTM and make him duck in and out of cover, no amount of SS or Holofeild will save it. Also, think carefully about the vyper, its cheap but it can quickly go out of hand. IMO a 90 pt scatter laser is pushing it, considering the platform on the defender squad costs much less.

Sustained assault and shuriken pistol on your Swooping Hawk Exarch will make him a combat monster.

3 Jetbikes costs as much as 2 additional semi tooled up vypers, its a matter of preference but I never liked Jetbikes much, just like to point that out.
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