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So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 04:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

I've been working on a possible list for Ard Boyz, and I surprised myself with something. If I did the math right, a properly equipped Herald of Khorne can actually get a penetrating hit against a Land Raider. Somebody tell me if there's a hole in this chain of logic:

Base Herald of Khorne is Strength 4.
Giving him a Juggernaut or chariot makes him Strength 5.
Unholy Might gives him Strength 6.
Furious Charge means he's strength 7 on the charge.
If he rolls a 6 on the armor penetration roll, that's only 13 normally.
BUT, if we also give him Fury of Khorne (Rending), then you get another D3.
That makes the roll at least 14, which will glance, and possibly 15 or 16 which pens.

Doing some math in my head, assuming a fully souped up H of K charges a land raider, each hit has a 1 in 6 chance of rending, and the rends will glance 1/3 of the time and pen 2/3's. That's a 1 in 18 chance of glance and a 1 in 9 chance of penetrating, or a 1 in 6 chance (17%) of getting through the armor in general. Granted, 1 in 6 is not great, but this is a land raider we're talking about.

A soul grinder's Strength 10 attack (either close combat weapon or railtongue) has better odds, of course (50% per hit), but in my experience Soul Grinders do not get close enough to melee without taking a melta between the eyes, and the railtongue misses half the time.

The title of Best Land Raider killer still goes to the Daemon Prince with Unholy Might (strength 6 but no furious charge). He needs an 8 on two dice to glance, which is 5 in 36 or about 14%; or a 9 to pen, which is 10 in 36 or about 28%. Added together it's 15 in 36 or about 42%. Granted, that's significantly better than the Herald can do, but I hadn't thought the Herald could do it at all!
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Old 26 Apr 2010, 11:23   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

i dont believe your math is wrong. it definitely looks correct.
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Old 26 Apr 2010, 17:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightperson
I've been working on a possible list for Ard Boyz, and I surprised myself with something. If I did the math right, a properly equipped Herald of Khorne can actually get a penetrating hit against a Land Raider. Somebody tell me if there's a hole in this chain of logic:

Base Herald of Khorne is Strength 4.
Giving him a Juggernaut or chariot makes him Strength 5.
Unholy Might gives him Strength 6.
Furious Charge means he's strength 7 on the charge.
If he rolls a 6 on the armor penetration roll, that's only 13 normally.
BUT, if we also give him Fury of Khorne (Rending), then you get another D3.
That makes the roll at least 14, which will glance, and possibly 15 or 16 which pens.

Doing some math in my head, assuming a fully souped up H of K charges a land raider, each hit has a 1 in 6 chance of rending, and the rends will glance 1/3 of the time and pen 2/3's. That's a 1 in 18 chance of glance and a 1 in 9 chance of penetrating, or a 1 in 6 chance (17%) of getting through the armor in general. Granted, 1 in 6 is not great, but this is a land raider we're talking about.

A soul grinder's Strength 10 attack (either close combat weapon or railtongue) has better odds, of course (50% per hit), but in my experience Soul Grinders do not get close enough to melee without taking a melta between the eyes, and the railtongue misses half the time.

The title of Best Land Raider killer still goes to the Daemon Prince with Unholy Might (strength 6 but no furious charge). He needs an 8 on two dice to glance, which is 5 in 36 or about 14%; or a 9 to pen, which is 10 in 36 or about 28%. Added together it's 15 in 36 or about 42%. Granted, that's significantly better than the Herald can do, but I hadn't thought the Herald could do it at all!
You must really hate meltas. Daemon prince can die to normal static fire I noticed. That's why I favor chariots. Without hunting down my codex what about putting the chomp guy that rend on 4-6 in a squad of juggernaughts with him riding a naught. Haven't play tested skull taker on juggernaught with juggernaught support. I'm thinking it would be able to take out a land raider since he rends half the time.
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Old 26 Apr 2010, 18:57   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

I run a Rendy Jugger-Herald with a squad of Crusher boys and they make an incredibly powerful unit. Send them in after Plague boys and you can usually go without too much counter fire. Making one of the Crushers Rending as well allows you a chance to get rid of Walkers, too.

I don't like the Chariot as it means you have to run your Herald around solo as it removes the IC rule
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Old 26 Apr 2010, 21:14   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

Any model can melee a Land Raider (provided it gets close enough). But it takes skill to cause damage.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 10:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
Without hunting down my codex what about putting the chomp guy that rend on 4-6 in a squad of juggernaughts with him riding a naught. Haven't play tested skull taker on juggernaught with juggernaught support. I'm thinking it would be able to take out a land raider since he rends half the time.
I may be mistaken but I'm fairly sure that Skulltaker's 4+ Rending is only against models with a Toughness value, making it only as good as regular Rending against vehicles.

And the OP is correct that you could theoretically crack a Land Raider with a HoK but in my opinion the chances are so low you're better off using other things in your army (unless you have no other choice).
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Old 28 Apr 2010, 00:44   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: So a Herald of Khorne can actually melee a land raider?

I guess the reason for the post in the first place is that I'm used to playing Tau and having railguns with a decent chance of puncturing the mighty land raider. With my Daemons I was having a lot more trouble with them. Nothing ranged is terribly reliable, so it falls to high-strength melee units or Screamers of Tzeentch. With only a single swing, I don't find Screamers to be very effective, and you can have at most three models from Heavy Support that can do it. So yes, in a pinch you can try to melee a land raider with a herald, but it's a last resort.
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