[Odo The Brave]

Hi! As the title suggests I am rather new at Daemons and would like some help building a list. Now for specifics:

-I'm thinking just a 1000 or 1250 point list, since I'm just getting started.
-This is a list for friendly play among a small group, so I don't need a ridiculously powerful list.
-I usually play against Orks, Necons, and Tau.
-I really like the looks of a Khorne/Tzeentch list. I also like Nurgle, but I get the feeling the army wouldn't be effective until it was at a much higher point value then what I'm looking at.

Also, I'm not sure if this should go in the Daemon Board or the Chaos Lists Board. For now I'm putting it in the Daemons Board because I want to bring as much life to this board as possible. Please move this if it is in the wrong place.

Since I'm new anything helps. Thanks in advance for helping me.

[sionnach19]

Hey! Welcome to the forums!

I'll give a quick run through of your points, I'm certainly no expert on Demons but I'd be more than happy to help.

- 1,000-1,250 point list isn't very high, which has it's pluses and minuses. You won't have to worry about loads of models or a lot of tanks, but in return it'll be harder for you to include your own heavy weight models. It's a good trade, I think small games can be a lot of fun.

- That's always another good thing, you get to have the most fun with the list and include what you want rather than what's most competitive. Definitely a good call, in my opinion

- This is good, as you have a wide spread of armies to balance yourself against. Orks can provide numbers and some close combat oomph, Necrons strong durability, and Tau speed and flexibility. For these paticular armies, blood letters won't be the most *effective* troops. They'll certainly be good, but you may wanna focus on having more horrors than bloodletters if possible.

- Khorne and Tzeentch are prolly the "stronger" units in the codex as well as being some of the coolest in my opinion, so good choice once again! Nurgle certainly isn't bad, Plaguebearers provide a good tarpit unit and Great Unclean Ones (GUO) are probably the only Greater Demon you can afford.

Hmmm....

So my general idea to you would be to get 2 medium squads of Horrors (as a note, always always ALWAYS take the Changeling in a Horror squad. He's so cheap and awesome that he's practically a given in there), 1 medium squad of Bloodletters, and 1 medium squad of Plaguebearers to start off. This will give you three scoring units and some solid troops choices. For your HQ, Khorne Heralds provide fearsome combat prowess to back up your shootier Horrors and Tzeentch Heralds can provide some good spells for crowd control (Breath of Chaos) and some fun ones (Boon of Mutation being my personal favorite). Always get chariots for your Heralds, they're awesome upgrades for the points cost and the durability is well woth the loss of being an Independent Character. Another option would be a GUO, the cheapest of the GD it could provide a solid way to get a monstrous creature into your army.

That's a good foundation to work off of. From there, you're going to start running low on points. I would focus on either Bloodcrushers (awesome combat units) or Flamers (awesome shooty units) for an elites choice, they can compliment your army off the bat (Flamers had some mobility which you may need). I'd definitely try to get a Heavy Support choice in too, either a Demon Prince or Soul Grinder. A DP with wings could get expensive but provides more mobility and a close combat powerhouse that could nicely compliment your forces if you don't have a GUO. The Soul Grinder is good because it's a vehicle, so very hard to kill in/outside of combat unless your enemy is prepared for it. It can also add some bigger guns in the form of maw weapons to your force.

There's some rudimentary advice I would offer you to get you started on your way to Chaos! If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure some of the veteran demon players can give you good advice.

[Odo The Brave]

Just one more question-
I know that the size for most daemon troops is 5-20 models. However, in the several games I've played using between 8 and 10 BLs per squad. In my experience this was extreme overkill against most troop units.
So when you say medium sized how big is that exactly?
Medium size by what is possible is 10. Medium size for what is usable is probably less than that.

[chaos_master]

If by BL you mean bloodletters then 10 is a sufficient size(remember that not all of them will make it to combat after the deep strike).

[Nightmare]

I'm thinking just a 1000 or 1250 point list, since I'm just getting started.

Definitely not a bad range to start with. But believe me, that will be expanding very quickly when you start tinkering with the list. My suggestion? Aim for 1250 and leave the remaining 250 points to fine tune your list when problems start to arise.

-This is a list for friendly play among a small group, so I don't need a ridiculously powerful list.

In my experience there is no such thing as an unpowerful Daemons list. Sometimes playing daemons can very much feel like flipping a coin that lasts 6 turns: sometimes you'll decimate your enemy, other times you'll get sent back to the warp before you can get into assault.

Besides, when you start going to other places for games you may just wind up getting beaten again and again without getting anywhere. Definitely not worth the time and the effort invested in the army then is it? Although I wouldn't suggest taking a "hard" army against mates, I would definitely advise otherwise if you are looking to take a "Soft" army. You may just make it too soft and just have frustration whenever you look at your bank balance to try and sort the problem out. Remember that the gaming side of this hobby is still very hostile no matter what level you play - don't think you should take it easy just because they are friends, but at the same time don't sacrifice the ability to build unique models.

-I usually play against Orks, Necons, and Tau.

That's actually quite a nice range - you have your assaulty horde army, and MEQ army that Isn't marines and a long ranged firepower army. Kudos to your group for the balance.

-I really like the looks of a Khorne/Tzeentch list. I also like Nurgle, but I get the feeling the army wouldn't be effective until it was at a much higher point value then what I'm looking at.

I don't know about that - I wrote up a list with Epidermius and Kugath (sp? Silly daemon names) and then nothing but nurglings. Definitely original and quite humorous seeing a load of little guys running around followed by a giant. Plus Nurglings with power weapons can never get old.

However. Khorne is easily the most powerful in assault for the army - even if a small handful of 'letters make it into combat you can guarantee that the unit is going to get sliced and diced in a matter of seconds. I'd be tempted to take 3 lots of 10 and launch them at anything that looks like they might be up for a fight. Terminators, pariahs, Nobz, battle suits. All fair game. Then it's just a matter of seeing whats left to mop up after you have gouged the heart of the enemy. Take a few bloodcrushers too. However, rather than send them against a like unit - try running into the regular infantry. Why? They are quite possibly the toughest unit in the army with the exception of a great unclean one added to the fact that they make a mess of anything that they hit and you will be forcing your opponent to deal with this huge threat, and forcing him to change his own plans whilst the blood crushers merrily do what they were designed to do.

Oh - and for the tough nuts send a daemon prince or a Herald after them. A herald on juggernaught (the one from the fantasy range looks gorgeous!) can take one look at your opponents hard unit and eat them whilst they fight in vain for their lives.

But I think I have rambled a little too long on Khorne (and I call myself a slaaneshi worshipper :P) so go and figure the rest out for yourself.

Just one more question-

Ask as many questions as you like, 'tis what we are here for.

I know that the size for most daemon troops is 5-20 models. However, in the several games I've played using between 8 and 10 BLs per squad. In my experience this was extreme overkill against most troop units.
So when you say medium sized how big is that exactly?

Oooh... Depends on what unit you are taking, Bloodletters and plaguebearers will do at the 10 men mark, however daemonettes will probably be looking at units of 20 girls to get enough rending attacks in to win a combat. And I have heard of Tzeench managing with numerous squads of 5... things... to scurry around and bombard the enemy with shots whilst hiding behind fearless and 4++ saves.

[hr]

Also, I'm not sure if this should go in the Daemon Board or the Chaos Lists Board.

Don't worry about it - you have it in the right place. Army lists are where actual Lists go, the main boards themselves are where you go if you are wanting a discussion rather than criticism.

[Odo The Brave]

Hadn't seen the Nurgling list yet. Looks fun. ;D
Actually, I was thinking that that might be actually a really good build.
One problem that I do see though is that can it hold objectives?
I don't know, since I'm really unsure on how the whole objective thing works... If there's any really good explanation about it, it would be great if someone could provide a link.

[Drax]

I run a mono khorn list so I'm some what impartial in what to run. However the general theme is to throw something that can take punishment Ie blood crushers, blood thrister, soul grinder, daemon prince, anything nurgle, so that way they take fire the first turn u deep strike. Then second turn you have fragile but hard hitting daemons come in ie, blood letters, flamers, etc. Daemons are a ton of fun to play, This is a list I run (sorry silk i know you have seen me post this list like a 10 times)

hq
Skull taker on chariot
herald on Juggernaut
blood thrister
elites
Blood crushersx5
troops
10x blood letters
10x blood letters
heavy
1x soul grinder phlegm
1x daemon prince (i kit him out with breath of chaos)

should be little under 1500

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Odo The Brave

Hadn't seen the Nurgling list yet. Looks fun. ;D
Actually, I was thinking that that might be actually a really good build.
One problem that I do see though is that can it hold objectives?
I don't know, since I'm really unsure on how the whole objective thing works... If there's any really good explanation about it, it would be great if someone could provide a link.

I think it will do fine for holding objectives. Neither in the BOB or the Codex does it say anything about them not being able to hold objectives.

[karnij7877]

I don't have my rulebook in front of me at the moment, but I believe if you look under the Swarm rule in the 5th edition rule-book, it says they can not hold objectives...

[Nightmare]

Nope - im looking at the Swarm special rules right now and there is no mention of objectives at all in the entry.