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A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units
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Old 24 Apr 2008, 23:28   #11 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40kenthusiast
It's actually effectively a 3+ invul save (you fail on 1's, 2's 3's and 4's, but half of those will be FNP'd away, so effectively its like failing on 1's and 2's.) It even works vs. s10 weapons, since they are Eternal Warriors, but rending and power weapons take you back to just the 5+ invul save.
Actually, being immune to Instant Death does not make one immune to losing FNP from weapons with a strength double one's Toughness. So, Plaguebearers are still susceptible to S10 weapons and monsters like Demolisher Cannons and Wraithlords.
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Old 25 Apr 2008, 05:31   #12 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Nice article, 40K I see that most them are melee and have Inv Sv. This little article will be useful for my Grey Knights. Bwahahahahha Information on Daemons will only make Zen's GKs stronger >

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Old 25 Apr 2008, 13:24   #13 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Arcturus: Really? I hadn't read the rules in a while. Guess that makes Devastators better vs. Plaguebearers, but they've probably got more threatening uses to blast. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out.

Zen Ai: Heh, more power to you. If you've stuck with Grey Knights this long I can only say you deserve an enemy you can stomp. Burn the Unholy!
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Old 25 Apr 2008, 13:30   #14 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Well there's no set rule for it.. they ignore instant death, and weapons that cause instant death ignore FnP.. big cycle of confusion..
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Old 25 Apr 2008, 13:35   #15 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Ah, I figured it was in the FNP special rule, saying shooting weapons of double str or cc weapons that ignored armor saves. If someone wants to post the text on FNP that'll sort it out.

It really isn't a big deal though. How often do you get attacked with S10 shooting weapons aimed at troops with FNP and an invul save? The only thing I can imagine is one of those s10 pie plate tanks, but even if will probably shoot at something more dangerous than plaguebearers/beasts of nurgle.
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Old 01 May 2008, 16:24   #16 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

How do the rumoured 5th ed rules that will hit roughly two months after this codex affect your thoughts on the units.

You mention, a few times, things that appear to have only a short life-span of usefulness, such as how screamers are good objective takers, or how a chariot turns a herald into a scoring unit.

If I'm considering a daemon army, it would have to be with 5th ed in mind.

Pavane = poor-man's Lash. Well, it's not stoppable w/ a psychic hood/runes/shadow of the warp, so that's a plus. But, they (wisely) prevent it from affecting any unit more than once, and with only d6 movement, I am not sure it's considerably more useful than Fleet. I thought (and may be wrong) that the range on it is only 18" too, unlike the 24" on Lash.

On Deep Striking the army; I think this, right here, may well render the entire army "non-competative". Adepticon was, in my view, sort of a coming-out party for the new ork codex, and the return of the horde to competative play. With that in mind in the metagame, armies will be toting plenty of anti-horde guns. Deep striking close to your opponent is going to mean you're either scattering badly, or exposed to rapid-fire weapons at close range. If I could charge the turn I arrived, this risk would be worth it. Without that, I'm essentially giving my opponent easily killed targets.

Landing far away, with a low-armour, low-model-count, coming-in-piecemeal, noin-shooting army does not seem to be an option.

I'm not sure that any 'one-god' armies will be functional against competative opposition, and I think that Tzeentch is the must-have part, as the shooting and anti-tank it provides is going to be crucial.

Also, considering that the daemonhunter codex appears to be with us for the forseeable future, all imperial armies are going to have access to the bane of this force. 2 heavy bolters, a psycannon at BS5, a plasmacannon w/ 5th ed blast rules, and 2 mystics to get free shots on every daemon unit placed within range... all for one elite slot... And it's an elite slot that also earns it's pay against the aforementioned orks in the metagame.

I love the new models, I really really want to do a khorne daemon army, but I'm just not seeing it happen.
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Old 01 May 2008, 19:36   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
I love the new models, I really really want to do a khorne daemon army, but I'm just not seeing it happen.
Do what I'm doing, make more of a LaTD style army with a single god theme but use different units "count as." So an all Khorne army could include some beastmen with guns for Pink Horrors units. Maybe winged beastmen with flamers for flamers of Tzeentch units. etc. etc.

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Old 01 May 2008, 19:47   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Good points RB.

In 4th: my experience with Daemons suggests that they can do alright. Arriving close to the enemy is rough, but the enemy needs to choose between castling and mission objectives, and Daemons are costed presuming that they face a round or so of rapid fire.

Pavane: I'm not hating on Pavane, it is the far more balanced version of Lash. It's very useful in a Daemon army, just not the dominant force that the Lash is.

5th: As you say, I'm going to have to modify my thinking when the rules of the game switch up on us. The pdf looks to make the Daemons stronger (fearlessness better, run after deep strike, objectives more important, Deep Striking more forgiving, etc), but I'll need to do a full reassessment of all my lists when I see the actual rules.
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Old 01 May 2008, 20:18   #19 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

I strongly think that they are revamping the deep striking rules in 5th Edition, which would be absolutely amazing...

However, I think it would be absolutely ridiculous if demons did not perform well in 5th Edition. I know I don't always agree with some of GW's marketing choices, but it's obvious that it would be stupid to make a new codex not compatible with the new rule system being released two months after the codex... Some things might seem weird to us at first in the demon codex, but these things will be cleared up with 5th.

Take the Orks for example, I can't say that this is the truth but would GW honestly publish a codex for an army, a few months before the new 5th Edition release, that won't be designed for that rule system? Especially with it being included in the starter set? The more recent codexes will be published with 5th Edition in mind and should [hopefully] function well under the new rule system.

I've had the same thoughts Redbeard, I definitely would only contemplate demons if they worked with 5th edition.
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Old 04 May 2008, 22:28   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: A competitive review of the Codex Chaos Daemons units

Anything on the Bluescribes?
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