[Odo The Brave]

Hey so I've made up another list, this one with a focus on killin' Marines and such. One problem I've been having is that once I get what I want I usually have about 60-80 points left over, any suggestions for what to do with them? This time I've upgraded Rhinos and such, but it's a reoccurring problem for me, so any idea with what to do? Thanks, C&C welcome as always.

[hr]

HQ

Demon Prince
Wings
Mark of T.
Doombolt
Warptime
185 Points

Troops

CSM X 10
P. Gun
P. Gun
Aspiring Champion
Power Weapon
Rhino
Havoc Launcher
260 Points

9 T-Sons W/Aspiring Sorcerer
Aspiring Sorcerer
Doombolt
Rhino
Havoc Launcher
327 Points

Heavy Support

3 Obliterators
225 Points

Total: 997 Points

[limpchickeninabizkit]

Okay, my basic suggestions would be exchange doombolt for winds of chaos, get icon of khorne on your CSM squad, if not IoK Chaos Glory. The extra attacks rip marines apart. Also, maybe change the daemon prince for a Lord with MoN and daemon weapon. Toughness 5 is harder for amrines, putting him with either a squad of bezerkers or your CSM squad makes him survive longer, and his weapon rips apart marines. You can also arm him with a plasma pistol (high BS) So it'll hit often...

[Odo The Brave]

So That would be:

HQ

Chaos Lord
Deamon Weapon
Mark of N.
150 Points

Troops

CSM X 10
P. Gun
P. Gun
Icon of Chaos Glory
Aspiring Champion
Power Weapon
Rhino
Havoc Launcher
270 Points

9 T-Sons W/Aspiring Sorcerer
Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Rhino
Havoc Launcher
347 Points

Heavy Support

3 Obliterators
225 Points

Total: 992 Points

[hr]

I'm unconvinced on the WoC for the Aspiring Sorcerer. That would put my T-Sons within assault distance, and without the usual CCW and Bolt Pistol, they don't do too hot in CC. I want to stay at range as much as possible, since at 1000 points there's not much around and I need to protect my shooting troops. Basically my plan with the CSMs was to shadow my T-Sons and protect them from CC, not as a stand-alone Marine Killing unit. Thus the Plasma Guns as opposed to more troops/IoK to soak up Assault. My DP would be a support/HQ killer, with the Oblits being Anti-Tank. I had thought of putting BoC on the DP instead of Doombolt as additional Anti-Tank, but I figured the Oblits could cover it.

Anyone else have suggestions?

[limpchickeninabizkit]

I meant winds on the daemon prince if you were taking it.... stick with doombolt on your 1Ksons... sorry about that...

[Odo The Brave]

That makes MUCH more sense. Winds and Warptime would be a hideous CC Prince setup... Intense.>

Thanks, Shakey.

I'm still somewhat unsure on the HQ switch-up. MoN is pretty expensive, and IMO the Bloodfeeder is a better DW loadout, and MoN is pretty bad on its own.

[limpchickeninabizkit]

Keep the lord with your CSM squad (Independent character), and the bloodfeeder is very unpredictable...even for a daemon weapon. If either dice is a 1 it hurts the weilder. With the plaguebringer, you always wound on a 4+ with re-rolls. Plus unlike the prince he can hide in a squad, and he can get more attacks. he can alsoa dd a plasma pistol shot for a bit extra oomph, and if he is targetted in CC, marines generaly need 5's to wound him.

[PurplKrush]

Well, I guess I should ask first...

This is a straight power gaming list right? HQ w/Mon, CSMs w/IoK following TSs w/AS and Obliterators Cult...? Even Lady Liberty might have her finer sensibilities tarnished by that melting pot. And no, I'm not JUST coming at this from a standpoint of snobbery...

You're building a 1k list here and IMPO you're getting carried away with expensive units.

HQ has come down thankfully. 150 should be the ceiling for HQ in a 1k game. Otherwise you're kitting him out vainly and losing points that should be more frugally spent.

CSM squad is hefty but that's somewhat unavoidable and there are no glaring expenditures there except maybe the Havoc launcher. Still, the template weapon is always appreciated!


TSs squad is looking like a fat man in a little coat... But that's just life if you want them in the army. That starts to come down to personal choice vs. CBA. I'd rather see myself with 2 squads of 8 CSM with meltas and Rhinos with Havoc Launchers for mere 13 points more! In a 1k game you're limiting your ability to outmaneuver your opponent AND take objectives.

Obliterators... IF you could scrape up more points somewhere else I'd suggest dropping 1 Oblit in favor of more troops. Or something...

Overall I think you're really short on troops and thus limiting your tactical flexibility and strategic choices in a game that small. Having 1 choice that's a little vainly kitted is fine so long as the rest of the army is balanced more moderately. I do have to make some sacrifices in my own 1k army in order to kit my CL w/ MoK, DW, and Jump Pack (already breaking my guidelines at 160) and then top him off with a retinue of Raptors.

So with what you have now, if your set on having TSs, see if you can scrape more points and scrap 1 Oblit in favor of more troops.

[Odo The Brave]

Originally Posted by PurplKrush

I do have to make some sacrifices in my own 1k army in order to kit my CL w/ MoK, DW, and Jump Pack (already breaking my guidelines at 160) and then top him off with a retinue of Raptors.

See, I've tried using a Winged Lord with Raptors before, and it didn't really work out for me. I found them really fragile and quite useless for the points cost when I got to CC.

Originally Posted by PurplKrush

This is a straight power gaming list right? HQ w/Mon, CSMs w/IoK following TSs w/AS and Obliterators Cult...? Even Lady Liberty might have her finer sensibilities tarnished by that melting pot. And no, I'm not JUST coming at this from a standpoint of snobbery...

Honestly I have no idea whether this is power-gamey or not, I just decided to start with a T-Sons unit and make an anti-Meq list. I went with T-Sons, then Oblits because honestly they're one of the best units we can get and I'd rather have them than Termies etc. I'm a little upset about the power gaming list, because I feel that if we have a good unit, we should use it. When I was first making this list it was Plague Marines instead of CSMs.

Originally Posted by PurplKrush

So with what you have now, if your set on having TSs, see if you can scrape more points and scrap 1 Oblit in favor of more troops.

Where would I put those troops? 75 points can only get me a new 5 man CSM unit no upgrades. If I spread them out to the existing units then I couldn't use the Rhinos.

Originally Posted by PurplKrush

Having 1 choice that's a little vainly kitted is fine so long as the rest of the army is balanced more moderately.

If you were referring to the CSM squad, they started out with 10 CSM 2 Plas and a basic Rhino. At the end of building my list I had 60 points left over, so I added the Havoc Launchers, Icon, Aspiring Champion, and PW. If I could have added more Troops I would have, but I couldn't.

Mind you, I was having trouble deciding between 2 or 3 Oblits, so I could rework things for more troops.

[PurplKrush]

To start with, I hope I did not overly much offend you. It was certainly not my intent. The CL with pack thing is just my own example of packing in what I personally want at the expense of what I should probably have...

Like I said, if you can scrape points from elsewhere, THEN scrap an Oblit for it's ** points. Yeah, the Oblit's ** points alone aren't gonna get you anywhere. As per cults: the reg CSMs are cheaper and for your list at these points it's a better deal than getting Plagues. The TSs are expensive enough, another unit of cult marines would have killed your numbers regardless of how hard they may be to kill.

I'll be honest man, your list is a hard one to work with. I've been running some numbers and skimming some extra points is tough. It's tough to find them to work with and tough to justify taking them from where they're found to put towards what you can get for them.

Is it worth the Oblit and some other nice extras just to srcape together a 6-man CSM unit with another Plasma Pistol and a rhino or a Dreadnought w/Plasma Cannon? Hard to say...

Just my two cents man.


** Obviously we're not allowed to throw point values around but I feel weird talking so vaguely about it without at least place-holding a number value. Sorry, I enjoy crunching numbers... they're so yummy!

[Odo The Brave]

Sorry if I bit your head off a bit, I'm still figuring stuff out. I guess it was a little bit of shock that I made something considered "Power Gaming" with like the second list I've ever written. It's that I've been having a lot of trouble with what to bring and what's effective, since I haven't played much.

I think I'll take a look at re-working stuff after dinner and re-post some new ideas. Thanks for the help, sorry if I went over the top.