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1000 points of CSM vs. Dark Angels
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 18:01   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,860
Default 1000 points of CSM vs. Dark Angels

Here's a list I cobbled together to take on my campaign rival, the Dark Angels. I just tossed in a lot of armored targets, he may expect it but regardless it should still be tough for him to beat.

(205) - Demon Prince, MoT, Warptime, Wind of chaos, Wings
(75) - 5x CSM
(75) - 5x CSM
(203) - 8x Zerkers, Rhino
(150) - Defiler
(150) - Defiler
(150) - Defiler

Total = 998

I was thinking of dropping one Defiler and a Zerker to get a Lascannon-predator, it would really help me out vs. any of his tanks (I know he loves vindicators and could bring a land raider to the table). Thoughts?

*EDIT* Here's another list concept after considering the points below...

1000 points vs. Dark Angels
(205) – Demon Prince, Wings, MoT, Warptime, Wind of Chaos
(233) – 8x Zerkers, Skull champ w/Power Weapon, Rhino
(230) – 10x CSM, Aspiring Champ w/Power Weapon, Rhino, Plasma Gun
(220) – 10x CSM, Aspiring Champ w/ Power Weapon, Flamer, Rhino
(109) – 3x Bikers, Meltagun
Total: 997
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Old 25 Aug 2008, 10:21   #2 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: 1000 points of CSM vs. Dark Angels

Heya,

Quote:
(205) - Demon Prince, MoT, Warptime, Wind of chaos,
Personally I wouldn't use this Daemon Prince in 1000pts games, it nearly takes up 1/4 of your points limit, and it is just only one model! Ideally in 1000pts you want to keep things cheap but effective, a simple Terminator Lord with Twin-Lightning Claws is something I use for my HQ at 1000pts, it's cheap, effective and won't be missed when it's killed. The primary goal of 1000pts armies is to keep things cheap and expendable, fancy upgrades aren't necessary, and a Daemon Prince is, in my opinion, too valuable and noticeable to use in games of 1000pts. I would advise you to consider a cheaper alternative for your HQ, 205pts is a massive points sink for just one model that would count for nearly 1/4 of your total points limit.

Quote:
(75) - 5x CSM
(75) - 5x CSM
Hmm, now I can see why you've invested too much in your HQ, your Troops are scarce! A 5 man unit of Chaos Space Marines won't last one round of shooting, they'll flee by your second turn, merge both 5 man squad into a 10 man squad, more bodies, the risk of fleeing is reduced. Get this squad an Aspiring Champion with a Power Weapon, a Plasmagun, Missile Launcher and an I.o.C.G and you should be right. Seriously, small squads won't work and relying on them to hold objectives is pointless, they don't have the numbers to survive and will definitely lose out to a morale check. Bulk your squads out!

Quote:
(203) - 8x Zerkers, Rhino
A personal favorite of mine, the humble Berzerkers. Good squad size plus a Transport, all the squad needs is a Skull Champion with a Power Weapon and you should be right.

Quote:
(150) - Defiler
(150) - Defiler
(150) - Defiler
Wow, far too many Defilers, greedy boy! :P Seriously, 450pts on Heavy Support!? One Defiler is okay, but three? Unless your going with a theme, lose two of the Defilers and use those points to get your Troops bulked out.

[hr]

You've made a couple of mistakes that a lot of people make in 1000pts lists, you've seriously overspent on one aspect of your army. You won't win a game by taking lots of one unit, perhaps in games of Apocalypse, but in a regular 1000pts game you won't last very long, regardless of how many Defilers you have. The key is to remain balanced, make every point count, don't over indulge on any one unit and keep things cheap but effective.

Anyway, I hope my ramblings have been of use.
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Old 25 Aug 2008, 13:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 542
Default Re: 1000 points of CSM vs. Dark Angels

I don't really like this list. Whats the point of the 2x5 CSMs? It looks like you're going for the minimum troop choices and cost, but then you've got the berserkers. ??? And then the berzerkers don't have an aspiring champion when you know you're going up against power armour. Further, if you go this route with troops, you still need to have them protected, e.g. in land raiders or something, so they can't be killed really easily and can claim an objective at the end.

If your opponent uses ravenwing elements, he's likely going to have some attack bikes with multi-meltas, maybe bike squads with meltas, coming in from your flanks and toasting your defilers. The prince will die quickly to the fire of every bolter in his army since you have no other pressing target for them.

I'm also confused as to your motives. The spamming of the defilers strikes me as power-gameish in intent, but with AV12 they're not really too overwhelming to the anti-tank I'd expect to see in a balanced 1000 points army. And in any case, since these form essentially half your list, why not use a Lash Sorcerer to increase their effectiveness?

Contrary to what Anton says, I think the daemon prince offers the best bang for buck among the HQs, and can hold up for sufficiently long in 1000 points. I mean, if he can't survive in 1000 points, why would he survive any better in 2000? But he is right that your particular set up is overboard for this level.

Honestly, I think you should rewrite a list from scratch. If possible, determine what sort of list the guy is fielding, i.e. is it standard marines or one of ravenwing/deathwing, and build from there. I don't see this list being particularly strong against any of those lists.
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Old 25 Aug 2008, 15:30   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,860
Default Re: 1000 points of CSM vs. Dark Angels

Haha, my mistake. I should've put the intention of this list in the first post :P

I don't technically own a real Chaos Space Marine army, I'm building mine up but borrowed a friend's for this campaign. Along the way, I've fallen in love with Defilers and got a total of 3 to use on the table (general plan for this list).

I have yet to be able to outshoot this guy, so I rely mainly on combat to carry the day for me. The general plan was advancing a rhino, 3 Defilers, and 1 expensive demon prince up the battlefield. These aspects of my army were quite heavy, but the point was to hopefully tip the balance... send the Prince in up a flank to enturalize any enemy tank-hunters while my Defilers blasted away at his battleline, giving cover to the berserkers. Once the Prince and zerkers hit combat, the Defilers would follow in on the second wave to finish the job. My two itty bitty Marine squads for pretty much hiding behind the biggest piece of terrain I could find to hold objectives for me towards the end of the game :P

Addressing the points:

Anton - Hey Thanks for the reply, nice to know I have the advice of the great Chaos mod on my side!

First of all, I absolutely agree with you about the Demon Prince. However, that was part of the intention with using him. I wanted a big menacing target that my opponent would regret letting reach his line. He either has to shoot a LOT of firepower to knock him out, leaving my rhinos and defilers intact, or focus on my artillery and let this guy do some damage. Yeah, he's an expensive model, but I took him in a 500 point game vs. Necrons and he singlehandedly killed them all... ^-^ so it's won a special place in my heart. You're right though, I will definitely reconsider my HQ.

As for small squad sizes, I should've known better :P I've been messing with them a lot but haven't had any success, mostly to the reasons you stated. I'll bulk them out and throw on some goodies for survivability. I'll throw on the Champ w/Powerweapon to my Zerkers as well.

I am quite a greedy boy when it comes to Defilers, but in my experience one doesn't really do the job for me. It quickly becomes the target for all my opponent's anti-tank fire and bites the dust by turn 1 or 2, easily. When I use Defilers in large numbers, I have much more success... sooo many battlecannons, and soooo many S10 powerweapons in close combat! >

Chimerical - My two small Marine squads were more for objective holding than minimizing my troops options. I was being cheap with my zerkers as well, I just wanted to get them on the field instead of tooling them up.

As for my big guys, the whole point with my Defilers is that even if the Ravenwing come in to attack one's flank, there's still two more to deal with! Annd if they advance close together, providing mutual support, anything that gets too close can and most likely will be assaulted by the Defilers the following turn. The Prince isn't going to be flying out straight into the open jaws of a bolter line as well, he will be hugging cover and using the Defilers/Rhino(s) to cover his advance.

The spamming of Defilers is less powergame-ish intent and more me adoring the crazy demon engines and trying to use as many as possible Any anti-tank my enemy has could potentially take them down, most certainly, but the problem remains that he won't have the QUANTITY to take them all down in time. Trying to juggle between 3 Defilers, a Demon Prince, and a rhino loaded with berserkers, he has many pressing targets to shoot at and regardless some of them will reach his line and cause some damage.
_______________________________

I will probably end up re-writing this list as suggested... the biggest problem is that I have set reinforcements already, determined long ago. If I could take a Termi-lord with lightning claws, or a lash prince, I would... but the way this campaign is set up I have limitted HQ options to use and I went way overboard in selecting them. I'm really stuck lots of special characters, this demon prince, some cheap sorcerers and a handful of weird Lord builds. However, I'll do my best to look at this list again and see what I can fix.

Thanks a ton for all your help, gents
______________________________

*EDIT*

Here's another list I was toying around with. I'm stuck for decent HQ's, it's either the Demon Prince or Kharn and I opted for the Prince.

1000 points vs. Dark Angels
(205) – Demon Prince, Wings, MoT, Warptime, Wind of Chaos
(233) – 8x Zerkers, Skull champ w/Power Weapon, Rhino
(230) – 10x CSM, Aspiring Champ w/Power Weapon, Rhino, Plasma Gun
(220) – 10x CSM, Aspiring Champ w/ Power Weapon, Flamer, Rhino
(109) – 3x Bikers, Meltagun
Total: 997

A pretty basic "rhino rush", while the melta-gun bikers and Demon Prince hug the flanks aiming to disable my opponent's big guns and vehicles while the zerkers and marines take the fight to the center of enemy opposition. I don't have the Mark of Chaos Glory, or I would've opted for that instead of squad special weapons... :-\
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