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Courage and Honor......FAIL
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Old 25 May 2009, 06:19   #1 (permalink)
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Default Courage and Honor......FAIL

I can't even finish reading it. Graham McNeil really shat this one out. I now understand the animosity people have towards 'fanboys'.

Unlike the excellent battles in the Cain+Gaunt series, this book has nothing but one-sided massacres. Completely devoid of suspense, excitement, or realism. Literally a hand-full of marines kill THOUSANDS of Tau... Battlesuits, Fire Warriors, Vespid, Kroot, all manner of vehicles, just stomped out. I was really looking forward to this book as there is a huge lack of Tau fiction, but Jesus was I disappointed. I wish I had just read it in Borders instead of buying it for the $20 I spent. I mean, I understand that this is part of an Ultramarines series, and they obviously need to be godly in these books, but it was to such an extent that I actually just put the book down.

Do not buy this book. It's just trash. Like, Star of Damocles level trash.

/goes to sleep angry
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Old 25 May 2009, 09:12   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

You forgot the references to Abu Ghraib with the piles of naked Tau...to which I have to ask if it was really necessary to draw parallels to the Iraq War? Do you honestly think people picking this book up are going to want to read about that? :-\

But yeah, FAIL is the word. I've heard nothing but bad reviews and it turned me off getting the book myself. I get enough bullshit from the online 40k community for being a Tau player in the first place, the last thing I want to read is this Ultramarine fanboy BULLSHIT.
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Old 25 May 2009, 16:17   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

Meh, I've heard mixed reviews so far. Some people like the realism and parallels, just because it gets them thinking about how we experience stuff from the 'Grim Darkness' today, while others choose to simply ignore the parallels and focus on the action. Most good reviews I've read so far talk about how the Ultramarines made sound tactical choices that led them to destroy so many enemies, or praise the attention to detail regarding troop movements in the wider campaign.

Still waiting for my copy from Amazon (despite the risk of a bad read, I still want to have every published piece of Tau-related fluff on hand...). I guess I'll have to wait to make my own judgment.
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Old 25 May 2009, 16:54   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidstyler
But yeah, FAIL is the word. I've heard nothing but bad reviews and it turned me off getting the book myself. I get enough Shtlk from the online 40k community for being a Tau player in the first place, the last thing I want to read is this Ultramarine fanboy Shtlk.
Is it so wrong to sit back and enjoy a story about some great hero going out and saving humanity? Or is it just that his armor is blue? If someone stapled the name 'Salamander' onto the book, would it be better? McNeil is by far the best Space Marine writer. If you think he's a fanboy, go read any other space marine book. (This being said, compared to the others, I didn't like it so much, but it still had the humanity I love to read from Ventris.)
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Old 25 May 2009, 17:30   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deraj
Is it so wrong to sit back and enjoy a story about some great hero going out and saving humanity?
Yes. Yes it is (in this case). That type of writing is appropriate for something like Aliens or Star Wars, where no one has any stake in the opponent. In books based on a multiplayer game, you have an obligation to be a little more even-handed. And in particular, you should be true to the game. The fact that McNeil is the "best Space Marine writer" means nothing. He is just a fanboy in the company of fanboys.
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Old 25 May 2009, 17:43   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

I'm not saying that I refuse to read a book where the Tau lose a battle to a coalition of Space Marines and the Imperial Guard, that would be expected and probably a good fight. Its just when it turns out to be a slaughter instead of a battle, and happens at least 5 times during the book that I get fed up. The Tau in this book may as well not having guns, vehicles, or tactics, they just get mowed down like so much grass.

The combat inequality isn't the only thing that's totally off with this book. The fact that you could play a drinking game with how many times they say 'Courage and Honor' in this book just makes it ridiculous. Its so repetitive I really could only read a chapter or two at a time before I got too angry that I spent the money on it. I'm sorry but I hold the Black Library to a higher standard than a 2nd grade reading level.

Dan Abnett, Ben Counter, Gav Thorpe, my cat > Graham McNeil
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Old 25 May 2009, 18:37   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

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Originally Posted by xShaperx
Ben Counter, Gav Thorpe
Ben Counter... writer of... the grey knight books? The souldrinker books? Battle for the Abyss? That the guy?

And Gav Thorpe.... yep... not a fanboy at all.
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Old 25 May 2009, 22:52   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

I thought that fluff-wise all Space Marines were THAT tough. I mean, it is said that entire planets would surrender if they even HEARD that Space Marines were on their way there.

Further take into account that the Ultramarines are considered to be one of the best (if not the BEST) of all the Space Marine chapters. They are strict, precise, orderly, and efficient.

Now, for the whole 'Courage and Honor' repetiveness...I mean, it IS there battle cry, and they are in battle ALOT of the time. So...they are bound to say it alot. Furthermore, in case have not noticed, the ENTIRE Imperium seems to have that sort of problem. 'FOR THE EMPEROR!' being just one of many examples...

As for the whole, 'WOW a few people toppled an army all on their own' thing we-e-ell... *points to firewarrior* In Firewarrior, a single Tau Firewarrior killed a greater demon...as well as legions of Space Marines...Whats up with that?

However, I am in agreement with you in that the whole 'putting parallels to the Iraq War' in the story was a bunch of bull, in the most highest sense.
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Old 26 May 2009, 01:10   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

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Originally Posted by Emperor Zoron
I thought that fluff-wise all Space Marines were THAT tough. I mean, it is said that entire planets would surrender if they even HEARD that Space Marines were on their way there.
That idea has been building on itself year-by-year. Black Library writing has made it a lot worse. They are good, but they are not that good. A single regular Space Marine is still going to have a hard time against an Eldar Exarch, or an Ork Nob, or a Tau Crisis Suit, for different reasons in each case. What makes them special is that they are an army of only Elite warriors, whereas the Eldar, Orks, and Tau all group their elites in with the regular troops.
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Old 26 May 2009, 02:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Courage and Honor......FAIL

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Originally Posted by Khanaris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Zoron
I thought that fluff-wise all Space Marines were THAT tough. I mean, it is said that entire planets would surrender if they even HEARD that Space Marines were on their way there.
That idea has been building on itself year-by-year. Black Library writing has made it a lot worse. They are good, but they are not that good. A single regular Space Marine is still going to have a hard time against an Eldar Exarch, or an Ork Nob, or a Tau Crisis Suit, for different reasons in each case. What makes them special is that they are an army of only Elite warriors, whereas the Eldar, Orks, and Tau all group their elites in with the regular troops.
I see, well then... I must apologize then. I was mistaken. Sorry.
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