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TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 08:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

So, some time ago, LGT and I were having a chat in the TO chatroom, as you do, and the subject of balancing a few rules came up. So, with nothing better to do, we had a game via VASSAL (which was split in to two halves over two days, due to time constraints).

I set up the board, in a way LGT said was fair while he wrote up his list. And speaking of those lists:

Army Lists
Tau

HQ

Shas’el Fal’shia Rey’ka
Shas’el
Saturation Bomblet Launcher
Missile Pod
Shield Generator
Multi-tracker
Total 130

Shas’el Fal’shia Li’phi
Shas’el
Ion Rifle
Plasma Rifle
Rail Rifle
Multi-tracker
Total 115

Troops

Deathrain Team
XV 8
Twin-linked Missile Pods
Targeting Array
XV 8
Twin-linked Missile Pods
Target Lock
Total 135

Sunforge Team
XV 8
Twin-linked Fusion Blasters
Targeting Array
XV 8
Twin-linked Fusion Blasters
Target Lock
Shas’vre
Total 120


Mech Squad Alpha 105
8 Fire Warriors
Shas’ui
Bonding Knife
Markerlight
Warfish 125
Devilfish APC
Smart Missile System
Vehicle Multi-tracker
Targeting Array
Disruption Pod
Sensor Spines
Flechette Discharger
Total 230


Mech Squad Bravo 105
8 Fire Warriors
Shas’ui
Bonding Knife
Markerlight
Warfish 125
Devilfish APC
Smart Missile System
Vehicle Multi-tracker
Targeting Array
Disruption Pod
Sensor Spines
Flechette Discharger
Total 230


Fast Attack

Piranha Skimmer
Piranha TX-42
Twin-linked Fusion Blasters
Targeting Array
Disruption Pod
Total 75

Tetra Jetbikes
2 Tetras 70
Total 70

Heavy Support

Sky Ray
Sky Ray Missile Gunship
Seeker Missile Rack
Smart Missile System
Vehicle Multi-tracker
Targeting Array
Disruption Pod
Sensor Spines
Flechette Discharger
Total 200

Fusionhead
Hammerhead Gunship
Fusion Cannons
Smart Missile System
Vehicle Multi-tracker
Target Lock
Disruption Pod
Sensor Spines
Flechette Discharger
Total 195

Army Total 1500

Imperial Guard

HQ

Company HQ Section
Total 50

Elites

Stormtroopers w/ meltaguns
Total 185

Stormtroopers w/ meltagun
Total 175

Stormtroopers w/ meltagun
Total 175

Troops

Rifle platoon
HQ Section
3 Infantry squads
Weapons squad (Heavy Bolter)
Total 255

Rifle platoon
HQ Section
3 Infantry squads
Weapons squad (Heavy Bolter)
Total 255

Rifle platoon
HQ Section
3 Infantry squads
Weapons squad (Heavy Bolter)
Total 255

Heavy Support

Griffon Mortar
Total 75

Griffon Mortar
Total 75

The Map
Here's a lovely picture of the aforementioned map. Some kind of forest outpost or secret base.


The Mission
Finding that the hated Gue'la are performing some kind of research on captured Tau subjects, the N'Drasian Lancers decide to do something about it. In this case, to destroy the Gue'la responsible. Garrison forces appear to consist of only light infantry and light mortar carriers. Threat negligible to armoured units. Suggest approach in armoured spearhead to ensure rapid breakthrough.

+++Incoming Transmission+++
The Xenos Tau are moving on your position at full strength, request that you deny them via any means necessary. Use extreme prejudice. Reports indicate the cadre is vehicle heavy, so watch for mechanised attacks. Ksalian Elite released to your command for this battle. Use them wisely.
+++Transmission Ends+++


Objective: Annihilation

+++Intercepted Battlenet Communique+++
Outrider 2-4 has…enemy movement…permission to engage…cadre forwards. Permission denied… recon…rear line. Locate…ible reinforcements. Disrup…
+++Intercept breaks up+++

Deployment of Valkyrie AAC's is go. Standby for HALO drops, Ksalian Elite.
Ksalian First Company, form up and move to engage
now!

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initial Deployment Map


Tau Turn One

Movement

"Sir, sir, they've seen us coming, we can't get any closer without alerting them to our full strength.
Soldier, use what we have, the rest will catch up by numbers."




Much of the Tau forces move on in this turn, only the Tetras (represented by Warbikers, later) and the Secondary commander electing to stay in reserve. All forces in the east and south move forwards at maximum speed. Western forces hold back, preparing to engage any new hostiles.

Shooting

Target the central squad. Let's show these Gue'la what happens to those who stand in the way of the greater good.



Concentrated fire sees the first Ksalian platoon (LGT combined his squads, this being a kill points mission and all) whittled down to half strength, and sent fleeing from the table. Minor casualties caused among a heavy bolter team. They held their ground.

Assault



Here we see that the squad died at the board edge, obviously from a very judicious (off screen) commissar. The Tau commander jumps back slightly.

IG Turn One

Movement

"Sir, the Fifteenth, they're… gone."
"Too bad, we could have used their help. Send in the Seventeenth as replacements.




All IG forces move on to the board, barring the Stormtroopers held in reserve. It becomes difficult for LGT to fit all models in the allotted space. Somehow invoke negative space wedgie to ensure everyone is in place.

Shooting

Damage minimal. Administering stimms, local systems re-routing.



In a display of epic inaccuracy the eastern Griffon misses the deathrains entirely. The western Griffon lands on target, causing a single wound. The central heavy bolter teams fire at the commander, but his armour holds firm against the onslaught of hi-cal bolts.

Tau Turn Two

Movement

All forces, moving to engage. Optimal range is one-fifty to two hundred metres. Short teams, optimal is under fifty. Team bravo target designated at west four by south two. Terminate.



All Tau forces move forwards to engage the enemy at preferred ranges. Team Bravo disembarks to unleash pulse hell on the Ksalian soldiers now in the open. Sunforges and TX-42 move to assist.

Shooting

Alpha Strike against vehicle target designated 'Griffon'. Target priority western vehicle.



The Sky Ray starts the shooting phase with an alpha strike, doing little more than scratching the paint on the western Griffon. One missile gets through (pens) to cause damage, rolls a 1. Brilliant start. Commander hopes for fortuitous scatter when targeting the eastern Griffon. No luck there, but missiles just manage to shake the thing. Central warfish unloads SMS at central Ksalian squad. Minor casualties. Fusionhead misses horribly with Fusion cannon, re-rolls on target, but rolls 1's to wound. SMS knocks a wound off the heavy bolter teams. Deathrains fire at the eastern heavy bolter team, to no avail. Curse my idea of giving that gun pit 3+ cover. Western forces inflict an even dozen casualties on Ksalian squad. They hold.

Assault

"Look out, they're going to charge us!"
"Tau xenos charging?"
"No, sir, battlesuits."
"Prepare yourselves men, this won't be pretty, but remember, they have weak knees, ankles, and a blind spot directly underneath."




The Sunforges leap into the fray, knocking down a couple of lasgunners, forcing a morale test, and taking no wounds in return. They fail to pursue, and the Ksalian platoon breaks away cleanly.

IG Turn Two

Movement

Enemy reinforcements detected dropping from high altitude. No forces tasked to intercept. Vector plotted. Alerting friendly forces nearby.



LGT manages to bring in a single stormtrooper squad, scattering from behind the Fusionhead, but still manages to remain in melta range. Not looking good. No other movement. Thankful that LGT plays mostly static IG, otherwise might die during extended movement phase. :P

Shooting

"BOOM! ha ha."
"See boys,
that's how it's done."



Shooting starts with the freshly landed stormies detonating the fusionhead in spectacular fashion. Eastern heavy bolter team fails to damage deathrains. Something like a vendetta between the two begins to appear. LGT issues FRFSRF to the central platoon. 81 shots, sixteen wounds, and six failed saves later commander Ray'ka is erased from the planet in a blaze of flashlight fire.

Tau Turn Three

Movement

"Sir, they're still advancing."
"We're just going to have to weather this, son. Reinforcements got held up."




The Tau forces once more advanced, team Bravo chilling once again in the back of their warfish. The Tetras also arrive, outflanking from the west.

Shooting

Targets marked. Eliminate.



Tau shooting further mauls the central Ksalian platoon. Markerlights from the Sky Ray allow the deathrains to put paid to the heavy bolter team. Permanently. The Tetras and Sunforgers nibble away at the retreating western Ksalian platoon.

Assault

"Sir, sir, they're preparing to his us again!"
"Form up! Damn it men, I said FORM UP!"




The Sunforges once more slam into the battered Ksalian platoon. This time their momentum carries through, and they massacre the remaining Ksalians mercilessly.

IG Turn Three

Movement

"The Thirteenth just crumbled sir. Xenos employing assault tactics in heavy armour."
"Nobody could have seen it son, don't blame yourself."
"We also lost support group three, something about pale green dots, then static."
"The Third Elite are dropping now. They should swing the balance back our way."




Shooting

Outrider 2-4 taking heavy fire. Outrider 2-2 taking heavy fire. Disruptive pattern compromised. Armour compromised. Engine damage. Weapon damage. Pilot incapacitated. Unit lost.



The shooting starts, once again, with fresh stormies making their presence known. This time by obliterating the Tetras. So much for that plan. Both Griffons fire, and miss horribly. Western gets a partial on the Sunforges, but fails to wound. Southern stormies fire again, managing to immobilise the Sky Ray. The central Ksalian platoon runs forward (this should have happned in the move phase, but LGT forgot, so I let him move them forwards instead, allowing them to assault later, without knowing what they actually planned to do at the time).

Assault

"What the hell was that?"
"I don't know, but just lost ten men to
something on that damn tank."
"We're bugging out, can't do anything about that tank. Let the Elite handle it."
"All right men, fall back, but maintain discipline."




LGT uses the central Ksalian platoon to assault the nearest Warfish. Eighteen frags fail to do any damage whatsoever, and defensive flechettes cut down ten men, forcing the rest to flee (just). It is at this point LGT decides he hates me. :P

Tau Turn Four

Movement

Transportation Delayed. El'li'phi remains unavailable at this time.



Having had enough of those accursed stormies, everything moves away from them. Team alpha setting up against the central heavy bolter team, the western forces lining up the north western heavy bolter team. The deathrains also move to engage the southern stormtroopers.

Shooting

Preparing alpha strike. Anti-personnel mode engaged.



Shooting starts off with, in hindsight, a big mistake. AP seekers (not AT) are used against the southern stormtroopers, hoping that weight of fire will offset the poor AP. Said seekers then manage to not roll a single hit, and fly all over the place. Deathrains are more successful, killing three to the AP seekers' one. The northwestern forces attack the heavy bolter team there, killing all but one of them. Team alpha decimates the central heavy bolter teams. SMS fire from all vehicles further whittles down the central Ksalian platoon.

Assault

Target located. Best outcome possible if impact occurs at 35-40km/h.



Once again, the sunforges (now in serious running for men[Tau?] of the match) slam into the enemy. The last heavy bolter crew is dispatched handily after fleeing from combat.

IG Turn Four

Movement

"This is the Fifth Elite, coming in hot as hell and ready to burn some Xenos!"



Once more another group of stormies rains from the sky, this time landing exactly where LGT wanted. The western stormies moved to take on the TX-42, while the southern stormies move to attack the deathrains.

Shooting

Target lock detected. High-energy spike… +static+



All the stormtroopers put paid to their designated targets, wrecking the TX-42, detonating a warfish in a spectacular explosion and ripping apart the deathrains. No other real damage is caused.

Tau Turn Five

Movement

El'li'phi deployed. Personal log notes: Next time, I'll walk.



Squad bravo disembarks from their warfish, while the retreating squad alpha (may have missed that, but their ride exploding had…consequences, as did the subsequent heavy bolter fire from the Griffons) steadied themselves to shoot while still retreating. The sunforges close on their next target, the company command squad, while the second commander finally arrives.

Shooting

"Incoming. Xenos armoured suit, south."
"Hit the deck!"




Team Bravo, and the depleted team Alpha fire round after round into the central stormtrooper squad, reducing it to a mere three men. In the south the second commander rips through the southern squad with ion rifle and plasma rifle. Toasty. Up in the north the sunforges only manage to kill a single member of the company command squad. Not looking up.

Assault

Increase velocity. Modify vector to 097. Impact imminent.



The sunforges (are we noticing a theme here? :P) slam into the company command squad, killing two. Unfortunately said squad holds their ground and remains in combat. The second commander also enters combat, but both sides fail to score wounds.

IG Turn Five

Movement

"Alright men, begin the final push. We won't let these Xenos destroy all we've worked for!"



Uh, yeah, Static IG, so, not much. :P

Shooting

"BOOM! Damn boys, this never gets old."



The Sky Ray goes up in an apocalyptic explosion thanks to the central stormies. Both Griffons pop smoke, and fire their heavy bolters. The eastern gunner couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. The western gunner fares little better, taking out a single shas from team Alpha.

Assault

"What the hell, how are they doing that?"
"Get down sir!"




It all came down to this, in the end. Dynamic Assault was tested, and found to be both wanting, and possibly too powerful. The northern team scores only a single hit with its fusion blasters, while the commander in the south creates a bloodbath with his ion rifle and plasma rifle.

We rolled a dice for turn 6, but alas (although I should have seen this, given my penchant for rolling ones) it was a 1.

Final Tally

Ksalian Casualties
3 full platoons
3 support squads
1 Platoon command squad
1 storm trooper squad

Total: 8

Tau Casualties
Commander Rey'ka
Deathrains
Warfish Alpha
Team Alpha
Tetras
Sky Ray
Fusionhead
TX-42

Total: 8

Final Result: Draw
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 09:34   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Wow that Sunforge team deserves some vacation time. I would definitely recommend them for game MVP. I think you would have won easily if you had concentrated on those stormtroopers instead of taking out the regular IG soldiers. They were the only ones really killing anything, and they're still squishy. Good game though.

How did you add the pulse fire and missile effects in Vassal. Is that something new, or do you edit the pictures with another program? I haven't played Vassal in a while.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 10:06   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutfox
Wow that Sunforge team deserves some vacation time. I would definitely recommend them for game MVP.
Indeed.
When I actually get around to modeling and painting them, I'll have to make them extra badass.

Quote:
I think you would have won easily if you had concentrated on those stormtroopers instead of taking out the regular IG soldiers. They were the only ones really killing anything, and they're still squishy. Good game though.
I could have, but the heavy weapons teams were also easy KP's, and I was more set up to take either marines or GEQ's than I was stormies. In addition, losing the Fusionhead to a single lucky roll was annoying. (We had a discussion about the frailty of vehicles compared to MC's, and why shouldn't MC's be able to be killed by lucky hit, ie: headshot with an appropriate weapon, or perhaps add additional structure or something to vehicles, making them correspondingly harder to kill).

Quote:
How did you add the pulse fire and missile effects in Vassal. Is that something new, or do you edit the pictures with another program? I haven't played Vassal in a while.
That's not VASSAL.
That's all me, and all photoshop. Just using some interesting brush settings (roundness, scattering, spacing) you can do a lot. And the path tools help for spiralling missile trails.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 13:24   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Does anybody even use 56k any more? :P

I have to say, I should've lost.

Three Guard infantry platoons; sure, there's plenty more where that came from, but you pretty much destroyed my entire company. Your losses, by comparison, were half a tank platoon, if that, and an MRLS, which I suppose isn't insignificant.

It's not as clear-cut a case as the time I lost because I sacrificed some veteran squads to utterly annihilate a seer council on jetbikes, but you get the idea.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, this was probably one of the more fun games that I've had. Rav's a good opponent.

I've also modified this list heavily to be more sensible, you may encounter it in my 'regimental' thread in the Imperial Guard section. When I get around to posting it, that is.
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 14:02   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

It occurs to me that using the Dynamic Assault on the Sunforges that last turn was probably a bad idea. it was either two power attacks that both HAD to work to win, or six regular ones of which only two needed to. The averages are close (though normal attacks have the statistical edge), but in that case I'd prefer to throw 3 times as many dice and try to force an average result.

2*.75*(5/6)= 1.25 kills average for Sunforge Dynamic Assault
6*.5*(5/6)*(2/3)= 1.66 kills average for just attacking
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 21:44   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Oh, nitpick; there is no way in hell any of that occurred at ranges in excess of 50 metres. Ever. :P
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Old 02 Feb 2010, 21:53   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Good job to both of you guys. Illustrations look terrific.

I am not sure what version of Dynamic Assault you guys are using now. If it is the ranged weapons in close combat idea, I really don't think it should work when they charge.
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Old 03 Feb 2010, 03:39   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Good job to both of you guys. Illustrations look terrific.

I am not sure what version of Dynamic Assault you guys are using now. If it is the ranged weapons in close combat idea, I really don't think it should work when they charge.
Thanks Khanaris. I put my all into making it look pretty, and telling a little story along with it.
It was the standard dynamic assault idea (ie: when you don't charge).

@Psybomb: I took the risk using Dynamic Assault because up the top that was a company command squad, so a multi-wound character (unless something has drastically changed in the IG 'dex since I last leafed over it).

I will also agree with LGT that it was a damn fine (and damn fun too) game we had, that came down to the wire, although we both agreed that, had it gone any longer, I would've been able to really drive the nails in.

@LGT: I'm using out of scale distances here, where 6" is ~ 50 metres (which makes sense in context, but the models are far too big to use actual ranges without requiring, say, a warehouse floor).

[hr]

On the TODex itself, we agreed that the battlenet should be separated from 'lights (as having commanders but lacking access to useful abilities didn't seem to fit the Tau).

We also thought that, given the importance of cover now, that hitting on a 2+ and ignoring all cover as a single effect was too powerful. Splitting the effects should be fine though.

Alpha strike may or may not need overhauling, after comparing its damage output with similar forces (Devastator & Tankbusta squads) of similar points values. Ultimately it should be okay.

Dynamic Assault, if useable every round an XV 8 is locked (but hasn't charged) could easily become overpowered against certain opponents. Restricting it to one the charge only was seen as a way of limiting it, although other options are available.

The points costs and improved equipment (missile pods being more expensive, A2 guns, Ion Rifle) all seemed to be balanced enough for their costing.

We also decided that if flechettes became cheese graters that they would be effective against the latest sin against nature and game balance… :P
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Old 03 Feb 2010, 03:44   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Dynamic Assault, if useable every round an XV 8 is locked (but hasn't charged) could easily become overpowered against certain opponents. Restricting it to one the charge only was seen as a way of limiting it, although other options are available.
This actually has the opposite effect of what I intended when I suggested it. I saw it as a way of ensuring that Crisis Suits would never lose their primary purpose entirely, even when locked in assault. It may be strong against certain opponents, but that just means that those armies need to learn not to charge Crisis Suits. Shoot them instead.

When you can use it on the charge you have an issue of the suits being able to effectively fire twice in the same turn, but once they get charged you run into the same old problem.
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Old 03 Feb 2010, 03:52   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: TODex v3.22 (Rav) vs IG (LGT) [Warning: Pictures may cause instant death to 56k]

It's a hard one to balance Khanaris, as either way we are going to get people crying "Broken!" all over the place. I agree with your intent, and given the way 5th has been creeping (ie: massively) it may not actually be that far-fetched.
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