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TOdex =vs= Dark Angels
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 19:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

POINTS: 1750

DEPLOYMENT: Dawn of War

MISSION: Annihilation

OPPONENT: 4-year veteran, a Marine back from the Middle East
Pretty nice guy. Was willing to try out his Dark Angels competitive list against a Fandex. I don't know jack squat about the Dark Angels, so I couldn't give you an army list if I wanted. So in essence, I had no idea what I was up against.




TURN ONE - DARK ANGELS
Dark Angels steal Initiative. They shoot everything they could at those Kroot and assaulted the survivors, a Kroot Hound and Master Sharpe. Lost two Bikes in the Assault and locked in combat. The Dark Angels use a teleporter and special rule to bring in a unit of Termies.




TURN ONE - TAU





TURN TWO - COMBINDED





TURN THREE - DARK ANGELS





TURN THREE - TAU





TURN FOUR - DARK ANGELS
The Vet Biker shot and assaulted the Royal Guard and the 2 Ethereals, but died before he could get his power fist to work. But that's what happens when you get 17 attacks lobbed on you.






TURN FOUR - TAU





TURN FIVE - DARK ANGELS






TURN FIVE - TAU





Even with a good amount of luck for the Dark Angels, the Tau have still won by a long shot and dominated every turn.


TAU KILL POINTS: 9
DA KILL POINTS: 5
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If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
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Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 19:58   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
OPPONENT: 4-year veteran, a Marine back from the Middle East
Pretty nice guy. Was willing to try out his Dark Angels competitive list against a Fandex. I don't know jack squat about the Dark Angels, so I couldn't give you an army list if I wanted. So in essence, I had no idea what I was up against.
It's not great. It's a Ravenwing list, which is why there are so few of them. I don't know what he was doing with the bikes. They can move, Rapid-fire, and still charge. And they have Scout. Against a Tau army and going first he should have been 36" from his deployment zone by the end of turn 1 with a 3+ cover save! Aside from the one or two units needed to clean up the Kroot (if he even bothered). Instead he put the Terminators right out of the game to overkill a unit a fraction of their cost, and limped the rest of the army along in full view of your entire gunline. If you are playing on a 4'x6' table with 12" deployment zones, he should have been more than half-way across the table in the first turn at a minimum. In your deployment zone if he was playing aggressively. But from the look of that he barely got out of his own. Ravenwing are about as far as it gets from a gunline army.

He has no choice about dividing up his Kill Points. Ravenwing Attack Squadrons always give up at least 3, and sometimes 4. The Attack Bikes are not Independent Characters, so they are always on their own. It is one of the main flaws of the build in 5th Edition, as unlike regular Space Marines they don't have the flexibility to switch the configuration very much.

Since he stole initiative, I can understand why he didn't use his Scout move to close. Unlike regular marines, Dark Angels can't turbo-boost during that move. So I am guessing he tried to hide both bike units behind those terrain pieces, and the attack bikes behind the third. But with that he would have been crushed by the current Tau book as well. Ravenwing have to be played aggressively if you are to have any hope of pulling ahead, since at range they are really little better than a dramatically-overpriced tactical squad.
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 20:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

I'm personaly glad your using REAL opponents, not just yourself

Perhaps next time you can ask for a copy of their Army List and actually write down what happens round by round
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:15   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
OPPONENT: 4-year veteran, a Marine back from the Middle East
Pretty nice guy. Was willing to try out his Dark Angels competitive list against a Fandex. I don't know jack squat about the Dark Angels, so I couldn't give you an army list if I wanted. So in essence, I had no idea what I was up against.
It's not great. It's a Ravenwing list, which is why there are so few of them. I don't know what he was doing with the bikes. They can move, Rapid-fire, and still charge. And they have Scout. Against a Tau army and going first he should have been 36" from his deployment zone by the end of turn 1 with a 3+ cover save! Aside from the one or two units needed to clean up the Kroot (if he even bothered). Instead he put the Terminators right out of the game to overkill a unit a fraction of their cost, and limped the rest of the army along in full view of your entire gunline. If you are playing on a 4'x6' table with 12" deployment zones, he should have been more than half-way across the table in the first turn at a minimum. In your deployment zone if he was playing aggressively. But from the look of that he barely got out of his own. Ravenwing are about as far as it gets from a gunline army.

He has no choice about dividing up his Kill Points. Ravenwing Attack Squadrons always give up at least 3, and sometimes 4. The Attack Bikes are not Independent Characters, so they are always on their own. It is one of the main flaws of the build in 5th Edition, as unlike regular Space Marines they don't have the flexibility to switch the configuration very much.

Since he stole initiative, I can understand why he didn't use his Scout move to close. Unlike regular marines, Dark Angels can't turbo-boost during that move. So I am guessing he tried to hide both bike units behind those terrain pieces, and the attack bikes behind the third. But with that he would have been crushed by the current Tau book as well. Ravenwing have to be played aggressively if you are to have any hope of pulling ahead, since at range they are really little better than a dramatically-overpriced tactical squad.
It was a DOW set up, so he was kinda limited in options. My enormous unit of Kroot were able to hinder his Scout move when he deployed behind the building (you can only Scout if you remain 12" away from other opponents, and the whole Scout movement for flat out/turbo-boost must be completely 12" away the whole way).

With that in mind, the unit with the teleporter dropped in the Terminators on Turn One like a Drop Pod assault; I assume that you're supposed to Scout, and then when Turn 1 arrives, drop them off using the Teleporter, but he didn't get first turn and hadn't ever stolen the Initiative just yet.



We were both surprised he was still able to fight after Turn 3 though. He expressed his luck in several turns and did not allow himself the luxury of being able to nullify some of the rolling like I had offered. And considering what he had to work with, he was an extremely intelligent player. I think he'd be a great Eldar player. He asked for another game later this week.


I forgot that if you get 4 Markerlight hits on a unit, you can drop down a Str:8, AP:3, D6 attack bombardment of small blast templates. Or that I could take Sniper Drones on the Hammerhead; that the Fire Warriors can shoot after the enemy Movement Phase but before their Shooting Phase, that the Ethereal could call upon his unit to have Feel No Pain, and that the XV9 Battlesuits have Hit-and-Run.



My favorite unit in all of this is Steel. Hammerheads can already deep strike using the Drop Pod rules, and comes with an Ion Cannon with 5 attacks that are also Rending. Now I can give that Hammerhead a BS:6, and Tank Hunters. Can anybody say, "Bye-bye Tank Squadrons!"
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If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:21   #5 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
With that in mind, the unit with the teleporter dropped in the Terminators on Turn One like a Drop Pod assault; I assume that you're supposed to Scout, and then when Turn 1 arrives, drop them off using the Teleporter, but he didn't get first turn and hadn't ever stolen the Initiative just yet.
You can, but it is a terrible idea to do so against a shooting army. Deathwing Assault is only viable if there is a reason to bring them in on Turn 1. If there isn't, you just hold them and use the normal reserve rules. I would never use it against Tau or another gunline army. All he did was strand an incredibly expensive unit for no real purpose. You don't have to use Deathwing Assault (unlike Drop Pods), and you don't have to use the teleport homers if the bikes aren't in a good position.

Moreover, since this was Dawn of War, why didn't he Outflank? That is one of the few advantages that army has left.
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
With that in mind, the unit with the teleporter dropped in the Terminators on Turn One like a Drop Pod assault; I assume that you're supposed to Scout, and then when Turn 1 arrives, drop them off using the Teleporter, but he didn't get first turn and hadn't ever stolen the Initiative just yet.
You can, but it is a terrible idea to do so against a shooting army. Deathwing Assault is only viable if there is a reason to bring them in on Turn 1. If there isn't, you just hold them and use the normal reserve rules. I would never use it against Tau or another gunline army. All he did was strand an incredibly expensive unit for no real purpose. You don't have to use Deathwing Assault (unlike Drop Pods), and you don't have to use the teleport homers if the bikes aren't in a good position.

Oh, so you're not required to bring in half of your Reserves?
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:24   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

That is the rule for Drop Pods. Deathwing Assault is entirely optional. With most of your army off the board, and his bikes that far back, he should never have used it. It is an alpha-strike ability for when you know exactly where they need to be in the first turn. When I was playing Deathwing all the time, I can only recall a few times where it was a good idea. They are so expensive that turns spent walking and running between targets are an incredible handicap.
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 22:22   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

From the sounds of it the BS6 ridiculous ion cannon deepstriking hammerhead is really broken. What other army can deep Strike their tanks?

And an etherials ability is just ridiculous. Giving them a +6inch range is broken beyond belief. They become necron immortals for a fraction of the price (Even WBB doesnt make up that difference). And reroll wounds? Come on.

And the fusion cascade has some serious balancing issues.
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 22:25   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
From the sounds of it the BS6 ridiculous ion cannon deepstriking hammerhead is really broken. What other army can deep Strike their tanks?
Doesn't CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED allow Scout Tanks? :-\
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 22:27   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: TOdex =vs= Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
From the sounds of it the BS6 ridiculous ion cannon deepstriking hammerhead is really broken. What other army can deep Strike their tanks?
Necrons. There are other armies that can deep-strike vehicles, but usually not tanks.

That said, with the release of the Tyranid book the power of Deep-striking units has increased quite a bit.

Every book that has been released since 5th Edition has had a few things that I thought were broken. What time has shown me is that GW is simply intent on giving every new book a boost. It will not balance with the old book, and it will not balance with other old books. And there will be a few things in it that force opponents to develop new tactics to stop.
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