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WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"
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Old 13 Nov 2009, 22:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Dear All,
I bring another Grumgutz (without Grumgutz), but in his place is a new, rising Warboss and his friends the 'Ard Boyz and Meganobz. Though much maligned by the inter-nets, I decided to try these fellows out and see what would happen. Luckily, I managed to find a veteran player who wanted to try out a really odd Daemon list (a nasty list with a little from each major god; possibly taken from the inter-nets as well?), and we had an epic slugfest.
Before anyone is shocked, yes, there is major proxy-madness in this BatRep, as everything in the Daemon list is proxied with Tyranids (and the Soulgrinders are actually sheets of paper cut to the base size of the models). And here I felt bad about proxy-ing the MegaNobz!
There were incredibly memoral moments that I doubt will ever happen again in my Warhammer 40k career, so please, please read on.

Best,
-BT

P.S. C&C is greatly appreciated (and expected ... j/k).

WAARGH Grumgutz Alterate 64 "Grimskull's Gobsmashas" (1850pts) 72 Infantry, 3 Walkers, 3 Vehicles, 3 Artillary; 13KPs
Warboss Grimskull Gobsmasha (Warboss w/HA, PK, Cybork Body)
Big Mek Wingnut w/KFF
Nobzx7 w/Dokta Chop, PKsx3, BCsx3, Kombi-Skorchasx2, WAARGH Banner, Bosspole (BW Ded. Transport, Counts as Troop)
Lootasx10
'Ard Boyzx19 w/PK Nob, BP
Shootazx30 w/PK Nob, Rokkitsx3
MegaNobzx4 (Kombi-Skorchasx2)
Wartrukk (Trukk w/Ram, RPJ, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank; Dedicated Transport)
Da Beast (BW w/Deffrolla, RPJ, Armor Plates, Big Shoota; Dedicated Transport)
Da Big Red Cheez ((BW w/Deffrolla, RPJ, Armor Plates, Big Shoota)
BigToof (DeffDread with total 3 CCW, Skorcha; Counts as Troop)
BigToof's Steelgrots (Killa Kansx2 w/Grotzookas)
Kannonsx3 w/Runtherd

Super Proxy Daemons (1850pts) 35 Infantry, 3 Walkers; 11 KPs
Bloodthirster w/ Unholy Might, Psi Resistance
Bloodthirster w/ Unholy Might, Psi Resistance
Bloodcrushersx6 w/Rending, Icon, Musician (mild-moderate CWA...)
Fiendsx6 w/ Unholy Might
Plaguebearersx6 w/Icon
Plaguebearersx5
Plaguebearersx5
Plaguebearersx5
Soulgrinder w/ phlegm
Soulgrinder w/ phlegm
Soulgrinder w/ phlegm

Big Mek Wingnut of WAARGH Grumgutz didn't like it. Not one little bit. He had been saddled with a new Warboss, a Freebooter named, of all things, Grimskull Gobsmasha. The huge Warboss took his orders from Warlord Grumgutz, but Wingnut didn't like Grimskull. It didn't help that Grimskull barged into his Mek Hut and demanded that he take apart all of the Deffkoptas and Kans he was working on and make them into armor for a mob of boyz!
'Ard Boyz, the new Warboss called 'em. Wingnut snorted. The Orks looked more like 'Ard-Heads, what with being covered with all that metal plating. Armor on an ork? It seemed ridiculous.
Also, Grimskull had brought in a set of four MegaNobz. The Nobz were perhaps even more irritating, being from the Bad Moonz clan. Which meant they had a LOT of teef. And they knew it. The MegaNobz had huge, burly, bulky Mega-Armor that rattled and klanked like a barely-oiled Kan. And their Wartrukk was even worse! The Trukk was filled to the brim with fancy wear: Squig-skin seats, yellow-plated Reinforced Ram, very, very loud-speakers, a Boarding Plank (what did they think they were?), and to top it all off: Spinny Rims.
It was almost to the point that Wingnut missed Ex-Farseer Lorilune. Almost.
Grimskull had gotten a good chunk of the WAARGH together to look for a fight, eager to prove himself to the Warlord, but it seemed that the fights were avoiding them...
They were driving through the vast Wastes when one of the scouts reported back a strange hummie ruin. The Orks immediately drove towards it, but were saddened to find it completely empty. Except for a lot of Spikey-Boy drawings and a HUGE blue crystal. The crystal towered over the boyz, and was intricate, beautiful and otherworldly. Which meant that the Orks ignored it entirely.
After giving it a few moments, the Warboss began to pace in his Battlewagon. Without a good fight, the Warlord wouldn't respect him. Or his fellows. All he needed was a fight. But how to start one? He would have to do something, anything to stir up trouble...
With that thought, Grimskull looked up, and a devious smile crossed his face.

Pre-Game Thoughts: Oh what a battle to start Grimskull and his 'Ard Boyz with... A nasty daemon list with three soulgrinders, six bloodcrushers and TWO Bloodthirsters?
Oh my, this could be really bad...
Oh, and as this was an especially major proxy battle, the Tyranids are taking the place of Daemons ( ). I will do my best to explain who is who...

Mission: Seize Ground (4 objectives)
Setup: Spearhead
Terrain: Ruins/Hills/Big Crystal thingy

Setup: The objectives were scattered rather uneavenly, with one in the center, two in one quarter, and a single objective in a quarter next to the very tempting double objective area. (Is there a plan to all this? Maybe)
The buildings and terrain were also rather scattered heaviy around, with one quarter (the objective heavy quarter) having more terrain than the others.
The Daemons win first turn and... actually take it? They decide to take the well covered quarter with the two objectives, leaving the Orks with well... nothing (in terms of objectives anyway).
The Orks castled fairly hard in their quarter, with the Lootaz out in a far left building, the Kannons out forward in a patch of cover (bait? umm... maybe?), BigToof in the bottom floor of the Lootaz' building. The two Battlewagons were deployed next to each other (Grimskull and the 'Ard Boyz in Da Big Red Cheez, and Wingnut with his Nobz in Da Beast- That's the one with horns), with the Meganobz' Trukk hidden behind them (wow, nice LOS block there!). The Kans were deployed to the right, and the huge Shoota mob was deployed to the right.


Picture Caption: Ready for the hurt!


Picture Caption: Can you spot the Dread in this pic? Note: The "Daemons" in this picture are just getting ready to DS.


Picture Cation: There he is!

Big Mek Wingnut raised an eyebrow at Grimskull. The Warboss had ordered the Kannons forward, and now the Runtherd and his crew had been pounding on the big crystal for what seemed like hours. The crystal, though, showed none of the signs of wear.
"Oi! You fink this is gonna work? Dat big thing hasn't done but anything."
Grimskull snorted, "Youz gonna see. Grimskull done work with Spikey Boyz before. If dey got a big place like this, then that big thing is part of their bitz. All youz gotta do is find right way to open it up. And then out comes da Spikey Boyz."
Wingnut pondered the thought. Spikey Boyz did come out of the strangest holes at times, but how did Grimskull know. And working WITH the Spikey Boyz seemed a nutter sort of thing to do, but Wingnut decided he'd keep quiet on that... for now.
Runtherd Bogwog noticed it first, and that was when the Kannons ran out of decent sized rounds, and started shooting blocks of the Spikey-Boyz building into the crystal. The crystal actually seemed to glow when peppered when the Spikey-Boy bitz hit it, almost as if it was excited (or y'know becoming slowly eroded by exposure to Warp-tainted material). The Kannon crew poured more and more on...
And that was when the hole in the Warp that was carefully contained within the ancient Eldar Wraithbone appartus fractured and Daemons began to drop in everywhere!
Grimskull nodded to himself. Spikey-Boyz. Sorta. It was close enough.

Turn 1: Daemons
The Daemons got their favored half and came down with a unit of Bloodcrushers close to the Lootas, with a Bloodthirster 6" away (summoned off icon). Two units of plaguebearers came down on objectives in the Daemon quarter (if you know, they deployed like a regular army ) and two soulgrinders came down with... interesting results. One came down unfortunatley smashing into some cover on the far side of the board and rolled a 1! The huge chaos walker was immobilized! The other Soulgrinder came down VERY close to the Kannons.
Yeah, that's really close. Close close. Sorry Kannons, we liked you.


Picture Caption: Two units of plaguebearers taking an early lead in the fine art of sitting on an objective all day. Bloodthirster on the bottom.

Shooting was rather spot on, with the immobilized Soulgrinder firing at the Lootas, but the shot scattered and only one Loota was downed. The other Soulgrinder decided to drop it's plate point blank on the Kannons, hitting dead on. However, with some sort of bad rolling (and the wonderful artillary allocation rules!) all of the Kannons were smashed, but Bogwog the Runtherd and his Grot charges were entirely unharmed (although perhaps a bit slimy now that they were covered in daemon-phlegm!). The Bloodcrushers and Bloodthirster were hungry for blood (huh, I wonder why there's no Blood-Hungers, I guess it doesn't seem nasty enough...) and run forward ever closer to the Lootas.


Picture caption: Yeah, those are Bloodcrushers. Really.

Turn 1: Orks
With a cry of "MOO-COWS!!," Deffdread Bigtoof knocked the doors off the hinges of his super-sneaky Dread hiding place (yes, roll your eyes at that one, I know my opponent swore when he saw he had forgotten about that uh... small unit) with a mighty 6(!) for difficult terrain and skipped forwards, ready to play with the Bloodcrushers.
Grimskull saw that that the Dread was going to steal the glory of getting the first kill of the day (a personal affront, it was!) and orders his driver forwards! Da Big Red Cheez storms forward, with Da Beast (and Wingnut's KFF) next door. And... squished in between them (and still LOS safe... mostly) was the Wartrukk with it's Meganob cargo.
The shootas and the Kans lagged behind, but were slowly making their way forwards.
And in the most, most heroric (ok, entirely foolhardy, I have no doubt that massive Squighound persuasion was required for this), maneuver, the now Kannon-less Grots and Runtherd move up and screen Da Beast from the only mobile Soulgrinder! (Go 4th ed. tactics!)
Shooting was well... good enough, as the Lootas warmed up a nasty number of shots and took two wounds off the Bloodthirster. The shootas also fired their rokkits at the mobile Soulgrinder, but only managed a glance, which came up a shaken... (aww...)
Assault was also pretty fun, as BigToof slammed into the Bloodcrushers. There was much in the way of CWA, but in the end, there was wounded Bloodcrushers, but BigToof was unharmed! Even better, the Bloodcrushers piled in around the Dread, nicely keeping him safe from Bloodthirster-type retribution!


Picture Caption: Yes, BigToof, pet the "Moo-Cows," pet them HARD.

Turn 2: Daemons
The Daemons saw some of their reserves come in, in the form of a unit of Plaguebearers and a unit of Fiends! The Plaguebearer squad and the Fiends dropped in off the BCs' Icon to land in front of the Bloodthirster. The Bloodthirster inched up a bit, not quite within range of assaulting anything (yet), but seeing the incoming Wagons knew that harm was a comin'.
Hmm, now the Daemons had THREE objectives.
The Soulgrinders fire again, one bouncing off Da Beast's armor and the other took down three Lootas. The Lootas lose their courage (surprise) and pull back (but thankfully not off the board).
Assault continued with the Bloodcrushers failing to hurt BigToof again, and the Dread put some more wounds on the group, but the CWA started to peter out as one Bloodcrusher fell (Aww, Moo-Cow fall down go boom!)

Turn 2: Orks
Now, the pain cometh...
The MegaNobz zoomed forward, and suddenly, four metric tonnes of Nob and steel (or whatever the 41st century equivalent of it is) smashed through the windows and doors of the ruins and into the faces of the plaguebearers!
A bit put off that BigToof had gotten the first kill of the day, Grimskull still plows forward and leaps out of Da Big Red Cheez, getting close to the Plaguebearers... and only a little bit away from the Fiends...
Meanwhile, in a bit of balls-out desperation, Wingnut turns Da Beast around (after the grots have gotten out of the way) and Deffrolls the (only mobile) Soulgrinder! The big machine decides to take it on the chin, and comes away immobilized! (good enough!)


Picture: Oh, and as a side note, the Lootas rallied REALLY close to the edge of the board! Huzzah!

The Shootas and Kannons did decently in the Shooting phase, again glancing the Soulgrinder (probably annoying it all to heck), and downed a Fiend.
Grimskull, wanting those Fiends gone NOW, sounds his WAARGH!, and the 'Ard Boyz spread out quite nicely to firmly engage both squads.
Assault was, as you could probably guess, pretty hairy. Grimskull and Co. took the Daemons to school, wiping out the Plaguebearers and a good chunk of the Fiends while only losing two Boyz!
The Fiends had to take a hefty No Retreat test, and in the end a SINGLE Fiend remained with only one wound left...
BigToof continued to play with his "Happy Happy Moo-Cow Friends" and downed TWO more of the big beasts (including the rending mate) in an overly enthusiastic game of "duck-duck-goose" as CWA reached its limits...
However, the downed beasts left a hefty hole to the Dread's rear, suspiciously Bloodthirster sized...
And, (yes this is all ONE assault phase), the Meganobz assaulted the Plaguebearers who ALL hit and did five wounds! Wow. With trepedation, I picked up the dice, but nary a 1 was rolled! Huh. This is how Terminators must feel. The Meganobz watched the oozy daemons bounce off their armor for a while and then tore them into much smaller gooey bitz with ease. (16 PK attacks is sorta rough).


Picture Caption: Now you see Plaguebearers.


Picture Caption: Now you don't!

Turn 3: Daemons
The Daemons get their last Soulgrinder a Bloodthirster. Realizing and something HAS to be at this point, the Daemons get brave and drop their Soulgrinder right IN FRONT of the Lootas between the Lootas and the Kans/Shootas! It luckily lands right on target (it had to, as minimal deviation would have easily been a mishap). The Bloodthirster takes less chances and deep strikes in the backfield, nicely landing close to the Mega-Armored Nobz. The plaguebearers in the back RUN AWAY, getting a good movement roll and zip back out of range.

Finally able to end BigToof's fun, the Bloodthirster in front flaps over and with casual ease explodes the big Deffdread (double aww...). The explosion hurts nobody except my self-esteem.
The three Soulgrinders have little luck, as their shots bounce off the KFF, and the Soulgrinder in base contact (but immobilized!) manages one hit, but only manages a stun (which thanks to Armor plates gets knocked to shaken!).
As an aside, the 'Ard Boyz and Grimskull clean up the last Fiend.

Turn 3: Orks
Grimskull gets an evil looking grin and orders mass Deffrolla action!
Da Big Red Cheez complies and Deffrolls into the Bloodcrushers, grinding a surprised Daemon into the ground. Da Beast tries as well, but only manages a wound, but manages to park itself nicely next to an objective.
The Lootas fire out and take out a Bloodcrusher as well. The Killa kans, then with EPIC accuracy, hit the Bloodthirster with FOUR hits, which result in FOUR wounds (!). The beaten up daemon fails his saves and falls!
The Shootas fire out, and glance the Soulgrinder, but don't do very much.
Grimskull approves of the shooting and then rolls in, cleaning up the last Bloodcrusher.
The Shootas then run in, immobilizing the Soulgrinder with a well-placed PK. The Soulgrinder then looks out at 30 (!) Orks and decides it might as well set up a retirement plan...
Oh, and the Wartrukk zipped forward, getting ready to tank-shock/contest on Turn 5.

Turn 4: Daemons
The Daemons were in trouble.
The last plaguebearer squad came down, emptying the Daemons' reserves, and deep strike next to the other back objective.


Picture Caption: Yeah, Meganobz, the party is officially over... Or is it just beginning?

Now, they had two objectives to the Orks' two, but were in danger. MANZ-type danger. So, the Bloodthirster moved forward and assaulted the MANZ. Who were in cover. A calculated risk that unfortunately did NOT pay off, as the Daemon was able to take down two of the heavily armored orks, but the MANZ went on a PK fury and tore the Bloodthirster apart!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKHsj5y8UL8
Picture Caption: Just like that. But with MegaNobz. Err... Four of 'em.

The Soulgrinders, on the other hand, managed to immobilize Da Beast, wound Grimskull and take down a few 'Ard Boyz, but that's it! Oh, and the epic slap-fest that was the Soulgrinder-really huge mob of Shootas combat continued, with the Orks getting a nigh-useless glance, and the big Walker taking down another Boy.

Looking out and realizing that the MANZ would clean up at least one unit of Plaguebearers, and that the Trukk would contest the other objective, the Daemons concede...

Result: Ork Victory!



Picture Caption: Left to Right: "Megagrot" the MANZ, Grimskull, one of the Bloodthirsters looking horribly embarressed.
Alternate Caption: "Hey guys, do I have anything in my teeth? Seriously ok? Wait until I get it out before you take the..."

Ork Losses:
4 'Ard Boyz
2 MANZ
4-5 Shootas
BigToof

Daemons:
Pretty much everything but the Soulgrinders.

Post-Game Thoughts:
Wow, just wow. Less than stellar rolling on my opponents' part really hurt him straight out. He deviated into cover and immobilized his Soul Grinder early on, which was unlucky. His lack of smash on Da Beast was worse.
The Orks though, really rose to the challenge.
I'm torn at MVP's on this matchup, as BigToof tied up the "HAPPY HAPPY MOO-COWS" (that would have DEVASTATED my army) for three combat rounds. In the end, his efforts meant that the nasty, nasty Bloodcrushers took down... One 'Ard Boy.
The other MVP award would have to go to the MegaNobz, who, besides being completely underestimated (by me and my opponent), trounced a unit of Plaguebearers, went over the top to take down a Bloodthirster (!) and then were within moments of totally cleaning up the backfield. I thought they would do something, but not that much!

Warboss Grimskull ran around the warground, but he was now sure of it. No more of the big beasties were coming in. The really loud screaming and red glows that were so common before had petered out, and the crystal had crumbled into itself. The Warboss nodded to himself. It was a good fight. Now all he needed was one that actually left decent trophies!
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Old 14 Nov 2009, 00:08   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Nice Win there BigToof. Erm the Kannons?! Where were they? I could not see them in your pics they must of stole some imperial guard camo netting or something. Also The MANZ worked out well then? Do u think you should run a bigger number of them or was 4 fine. Also u need to paint the blue rhino, It not orky at all :P Again Bigtoof did well, I think i do need to add one myself when I move up in points.

How did you find the new list btw? Did you miss using the More Dakkka list or is this Grimskull going to be hanging around?

Love the MOO-MOO COWS!
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Old 14 Nov 2009, 00:17   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Waaghsteve:
Thanks for the reply.
Haha, the Kannons are actually in that little patch of cover to the right of the big blue crystal.
They do sort of blend in with the terrain, don't they?
The Rhino was handily given to me for a few playtests. I'm actually planning to buy a proper Trukk if the list keeps up (which it seems to be doing).
4 Meganobz seems just right! It seems to destroy anything that it touches (I mean 16... SIXTEEN... PK attacks!) and it's really amazing how many attacks it takes to make them roll a 1... But in the end, they do a wonderful thing, and that is divert the attention of the entire army to them. By getting them in the backfield, the Daemon player was forced to redirect his Bloodthirster, and the Plaguebearers were in real trouble.
They do have problems with power-weapon/PF type attacks, but when inserted properly... Wow. Just wow. Still dazzled by them. And c'mon, they took down a Bloodthirster! (luckily, but still...)

And, heh, yes, I love BigToof's antics. I didn't even think about that, it just sort of popped out. I'm a bit shocked that BigToof was forgotten, but I did place him pretty early on, and everyone tends to forget about a "poor choice" unit like a Deffdread when two Battlewagons are coming down the pipe!

Best,
-BT
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Old 14 Nov 2009, 11:47   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Waaghsteve:
I just realized I didn't talk about a list comparison, because it's such a... different feeling when playing this list vs my "More Dakka" list of Wingnut+Lorilune. (You can compare the previous BatReps vs. this one certainly). I did miss the anti-tank, especially vs this wrecking crew of 3 Soulgrinders, and in a way, playing the Dakka list makes it more exciting in terms of the raw desperation you feel, as suddenly everyone is coming at you, trying to assault! (Or so it feels to me). I mean, I have to worry about things like ranging up shots, screening, targeting, you name it. It's a much more cerebral type of event.
With this type of assault list, it's more about screening and target selection, as you want to devastate what you touch... but not too much

So, different, yes. Bad? No.

Best,
-BT
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Old 14 Nov 2009, 21:44   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Nice bat rep BigToof, 'tis a pity about your namesake, he was having such fun
I'm glad to see the meganobz doing well, i'm having 6 of them in my army.
Reading your battle reports, i see vast numbers of potentially devastating shots being simply ignored by that kff, would you recommend that i try to fit one in somewhere?
As usual, well done on another victory. Even though you won by a huge margin, this particular report seemed a bit more enjoyable to read than some previous ones, not sure why but it could be the action-movie sort-of things that happened during it; the death of the bloodthirster and of course, a major character falling after many successful battles, unlike many films i've seen, i wouldn't mind you pulling a hollywood and bringing him back from the brink somehow.

As usual, can't wait for the next installment.

PS, how did you find the new list, you mentioned that you were pleasantly surprised by the meganobz, but what of the rest, how did they do and would you consider using any of this in a competitive list?
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Old 15 Nov 2009, 08:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Cammerz:
Thanks for your reply!
I would very much recommend the KFF for large point games. It helps with everything, and is a lifesaver for Mech Ork. I roll pretty well naturally, and the KFF is really, really useful when people are shooting mass S8-10/melta at you. It's actually better than cover, especially vs Barrages and the like, as Barrages ignore everything but area terrain when they hit you.
Don't worry about BigToof (if that's who you're referring to), he actually gets blown up quite often, but is always back! (Good old Ork physiology/redundant engineering)
Re: The rest of the list, the 'Ard Boyz were also a nice surprise, as I've always been hesitant about using 20 regular boyz in a Wagon, as after a few 'Ard Boyz tournament runs with them, they just don't have the staying power you need to avoid things like secondary charges and whatnot. They are expensive, but boy is it wonderful watching them JUST STAY.
The regular Warboss was also very hitty and nice for soaking up a few wounds that the 'Ard Boyz just couldn't take on their own.
The Daemon player said that he thought Nob Bikers were "overrated" and that this list had potential to be even better (?). I wasn't sure if I would go that far, but I guess it did pretty well...

Best,
-BT
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Old 15 Nov 2009, 09:00   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

I hate using extra posts (sorry about this all), but I thought I should explain my general tactics when dealing with assault. My basic goal in assault is to NOT kill everyone that I assault. Pretty much everyone is shooty when comparing them to Orks, and Orks are actually pretty fragile if not with FNP or in good numbers (I only feel really liberal with them if they're 25+).
20 Boyz out of a Wagon is fairly devestating. Once.
If you destroy whatever you hit, unless your consolidation is decent, you're in trouble. And you can even lose combat, especially if your Fist wiffs (I've seen it before), or you get tied up TOO much and get hit with a counter charge.
But the greatest killer of Boyz that I've seen is Mech. Specifically Mech IG.
Without a solid way to kill a vehicle, you'll have to rely on PK, which is nice... except that if you hit a Chimera, you might NOT kill it, and even if you do, you might just wreck it, which means a lot of IG in your face. Oh, and look, you're bunched up. Apply templates. Orks die.
Depending on your club/store's ruling, Deffrollas can be your savior, as it can grind out a Chimera in the movement phase (rare now a-days). I've also heard that Boarding Planks can be useful, as you can at least stay in your trukk...
In any case, your Battlewagon Boyz need to stay around for at least 1 enemy combat turn, and to do that, they need to withstand the eventual counter-charge that is coming upside their head, be it from a pack of Grey Hunters, Berzerkers, or whatever the enemy has in store. If you have been good about choosing what to assault, then your opponent can't shoot at you (removing a LOT of the low AP options in a lot of armies), and will have to try to dislodge you with a counter charge or just pulling back (a dangerous maneuver, especially with a WAARGH on the table, and you'll be losing ground!). Counter charging a "small" unit of 20 regular boyz ends up in Boyz losing almost every time. Being only S3 on the receiving end, they just can't take it and will (and do) fold far too often. Now 'Ard Boyz in non-Power Weapon combat least THREE TIMES as long as normal boyz, and really, that's enough time for you to survive and let the rest of the army catch up.
That's my working theory anyway...

Best,
-BT
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 03:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Great report BigToof, good to see your namesake getting so much of the spotlight.
Proxies struggle to win battles in my experience, just like unpainted models ;D

Your post about picking the right target to assault I think is the most important bit of strategy there is in W40K, if you can get that right you twist the odds in your favour.

In both the Fantasy Battles version and our own 40K, movement is key, anticipating your opponents actions and moving to line up the assaults the way you want them is the recipe for success in both versions of this game, and also in many of the specialist games come to think of it, Battle Fleet Gothic, Blood Bowl, etc.

Luckily there are enough random factors and dice gods that give tactically inept players like me a fighting chance
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 09:32   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Sargaule:
Thanks for the comment:
I think it might be true with the proxies, but luckily, my MANZ proxies (although MegaGrot is a keen model, no?) did alright as they fought proxies as well
I think a big hurdle (at least it was for me) is grasping the concept of movement. It's easy to think of shooting and assault, as really, it's just math-hammer of shots vs cover/armor/invul and assault vs armor/invul. However, owning the movement phase allows you to control who assaults and where, and who shoots, and at what.
A Daemon army is rather unusual, as it can deploy pretty much anywhere it can deep strike to, but it lacks mobility for that one crucial turn. That, and a lot of it's army is infantry, so it's not that fast once it hits the board.
Case in point with the Soulgrinders, as once they became immobilized, it was rather easy to ignore them even though they were putting out a pie-plate each a turn. I realized they couldn't really hurt the Wagons if I faced them toward the Walkers, and (oddly enough) a pie-plate isn't enough to really make a dent out of 30 Orks in KFF cover. The Wartrukk was then pretty easy to hide (gads those BW are huge, didn't even notice it until I compared it to another vehicle), and then it could easily make it's MANZ drop-off. In that way, I suppose, this build is more powerful in terms of getting to where it has to go to drop-off it's forces, and really, that's all it needs at times.
I can already see it's glaring weaknesses though, as it has a relatively small number of Orks (yes, 72 is small), and it has two very small, but potent units that could be really in trouble if their vehicles are taken out.

Oh, and thanks for the comment on BigToof. I'm always tickled when the big Dread can do something of surprising worth

Best,
-BT
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 17:34   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Default Re: WAARGH Grumgutz vs. Chaos United Daemons (1850pts, 11/12) in "Ninja Dread!"

Another fantastic episode. A few questions

1. What is CWA? You apply it in the bloodcrushers combat.
2. I thought PK's null and voided the Cover Initiative bonus in 5th ed. Is this true (citing the bloodcrusher assault)
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