[Col.Angus]

Ive seen some stuff online lately that debunks the work of Greg Land as simply tracing photos and other artist's work. Some have gone as far as to compare him to Rob Leifeld (the most harsh of put-downs IMO).

Now lots of guys who try for photo realistic results need to use photo reference. Alex Ross for example cant do anything without taking pictures of models in costumes first. Land wouldnt be any different then that accept he has admitted to photo copying magazines and such to arrange his layouts and then draw over them "tracing" specific elements and also adding his own.

Now is this cheating? He must have some artistic talent to make up the rest of whats in his art besides the photo reference. Certainly Leifeld has little talent and possesses the worst anatomy knowledge of anyone in the business, but he has been nailed for tracing other artists work.

In you opinion is Land cheating for doing what he does? Or is he just lazy for not getting a wide enough variety of reference material to throw people off? And is the line he crosses when he traces a photo, or other artist's work?

[Dezart Fox]

By tracing you're not learning anything and you'll have to have something to trace for every drawing, anyone trace an image ¬_¬
I draw from references, have the image next to my canvas on photoshop, also used to go to Life drawing a month or 2 ago, I still find it difficult to draw a figure without a reference, but I'm against tracing ¬_¬

[Fire_Warrior 032]

I think professional tracing is "cheating," but doing it to try to get better at drawing is perfectly acceptable (though it doesn't sound like that's what he's doing)

[Valar]

I don't think that tracing is cheating. Some great painters of the past used the camera obscura for their "realistic paintings", like for example Canaletto... and I don't think that his art can be considered "cheating". Obviously, the situation with Land and Liefeld is different, but I wouldn't consider Land's work "cheating".

[waargh]

Marcel Duchamp exhibited 'Fountain' way back in 1917. The artwork is a regular toilet urinal that he bought and then put in a gallery. This is a step even further than merely tracing. The artwork was voted the most influential artwork of the 20th century.

Artists for hundreds of years have been getting other people to produce their work and signing it for themselves. The renaissance masters had teams of apprentices who would do most of the painting based on their master's instructional drawings. The contemporary Australian artist Patricia Piccinini, who headlined Australia's pavilion at the 2003 Venice biennale had all her amazing sculptural works produced by Sam Jinks.

So really, there is no way anyone can 'cheat' within the art world, the idea is paramount to an artwork. Largely, the hand of the artist is irrelevant.

Legally however, as far as I know you cant appropriate an artwork without the original 'artists' consent unless the artist has been dead for over 50 years (75 years in the music industry IIRC).


EDIT

Originally Posted by [1shot1kill

link=topic=66835.msg946190#msg946190 date=1211292158]
I think professional tracing is "cheating," but doing it to try to get better at drawing is perfectly acceptable (though it doesn't sound like that's what he's doing)

Tracing will help someone getter better at drawing in the same way that photocopying something will, ie: it doesnt help anyone get better at drawing. Drawing from references and life will, (life to a greater extent because you have more information at your disposal).

[Col.Angus]

Personally I feel if you need photo reference that's totally normal. If you want photo realism, you need photos. I think Land must be talented, otherwise the rest of the images wouldn't be too great. If he comes off as repetitive, its simply that he's getting lazy and needs to get more source material. Alex Ross dresses people up in cosplay style costumes and takes pictures of them for all his layouts as reference. I think his stuff looks good, but would he be able to be so good without a closet full of costumes and buff models on speed dial? Who knows...

Leifeld however is untalented, and has repeatedly ripped off other artists. Not just a "homage", like total tracing job. Try googling "40 worst rob leifeld drawings" and you ll see what I mean.

Ive just found this also: http://geekscape.net/forums/comments...cussionID=3738

Dave Mack has not only copied the work of Adam Hughes, he's copied it all from the same issue many times within his own. This is a discrace. If he was a writer its be called plagiarism.

I know what you're saying about fine artists of the past. Even showing mutual influence and "found art" techniques are fine within the independent art field. But when you re doing it for a living, you should do your own work. That's what you re being paid for.

As an artist Id be horrified to find someone has gotten credit for copying my work subtly or blatantly. If I was one of the artists that these guys traced Id see to it they got canned for it.