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Recent Changes to the Enclave Access
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 11:15   #1 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

As some of you may have noticed, the access to the off-topic area (aka the Enclave) has recently changed.

To access it now, you need:-
  • 1 positive point of karma
  • 250 posts

There may be some changes in the coming weeks, and I'll update this space if that does happen.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 11:19   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to Enclave

This is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd be inclined to raise the karma required and remove the posts required altogether, but this way does make more sense than the last system.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 11:21   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to Enclave

Will people with less than those requirements still be able to request access?
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 11:25   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
Will people with less than those requirements still be able to request access?
I don't see why not, but they would have to ask one of the Enclave mods about it.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 11:46   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

No disrespect intended FT, but even though Iv made over 1000 non enclave posts, by this new system, I would not get enclave access because nobody has found any of my contributions to be good enough to deserve karma. This system means that my Enclave access is based on how good a member other members think I am, and based purely on Karma, im not good enough.

Or am I grasping the wrong end of the stick here? If so then apologies for this mini rant.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 12:36   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

This whole policy is at best a pointless step that will change nothing at all, and at worst a dreadful step in the wrong direction.

Let me justify the 'dreadful' first. A strong ethos has always existed on Tau-Online that karma does not equal status. It does not buy you forum privileges and/or positions. It is a personal sign of personal achievement only, and when it comes to day to day life on the forums, the member with 0 karma points is just as respected, just as valued and just as welcome as the member with +1, + 10, + 30 and + 102 karma points.

Well, with this new policy, you have just destroyed that ethos. Karma now means more than just personal pride. Now it buys you privilege - namely access to a very substantial separate board. You have opened the door to elitism and all the other such negative traits which plague so many other internet forums. This was never what karma was intended to be used for, and it is very sad to see it being used for this purpose.

Admittedly, you could argue that +1 karma isn't very much from a practical point of view, and arguably you might be right. But it is quite obvious to me that if this dreadful policy is allowed to stand, it won't end here. Twelve months down the line we'll have seen it increase, maybe first to +2, then maybe to +5 and then to +10 and so on. Elitism breeds elitism, and once you open the door to it, it is incredibly difficult to stop.

So, to put it more specifically, The Man They call Jayne is just as worthy of posting in the Enclave as I am, as MT is, as Circus is, and as any other such member is. This policy says that he isn't. So the policy is wrong.

Now I move on to justifying the 'pointless.' To make my own position clear, I shall quote Khanaris from another topic. The emphasis is mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
we don't particularly want to draw in a lot of new members with no interest in contributing to the rest of the forums.
...

It is not our intention to block off the Enclave to anyone has been active there in the past, or indeed to any newer members who would like access.
This passage demonstrates the confused and muddled thinking that frankly many staff members and moderators have consistently demonstrated ever since the original 250 post policy was enacted. My response to them and to those that agree with them is simple: you are trying to have your cake and eat it. You cannot give Enclave access to all new members who want it, yet at the same time claim that you are cracking down on new members who have no interest in contributing to the rest of the forum. It's one or the other - choose which one you want.

The problem, FT, is that your answer to MT that people can still request access if they don't meet the requirements demonstrates that you are continuing to subscribe to this muddled thinking as outlined above. You must however acknowledge the reality that there is no point whatsoever in having these rules if you are going to bend them for a large majority of those who ask. If you do so, then the rules will make no tangible difference whatsoever. So why even bother having them?

Furthermore, it can be no coincidence that this crackdown has occurred at the very same time at which we have seen the introduction of the most epically pointless Enclave subboard ever created. Now I knew exactly what its creation would lead to. I said, barely two weeks ago, that it would result in the resuming of whinging about the Enclave being too big. I said that that would result in further Enclave restrictions. And hey presto - look what we've got: further Enclave restrictions with possible additional ones in the coming weeks. I warned you about this FT - and you completely ignored me.

Now, it's easy to grumble and complain, so bearing that in mind, let me offer some constructive ideas as to what I'd actually suggest doing:

1. Remove the Culinary and Cooking Board.

This one should be a no brainer. The board is unnecessary. It's pointless. There's no demand for it. It's clearly annoyed a lot of the moderators - so do the forum a favour and consign it to the dustbin. If people want to discuss recipes (not that they ever seemed to particularly want to discuss them before) there is absolutely no reason why they can't do so in the Enclave itself.

2. Scrap the +1 karma requirement for Enclave access.

Another no-brainer - for the reasons given above.

3. Replace the 250 post count requirement with the following: All members who register after the 7th of January 2010 will need 250 posts to access the Enclave. All other members will be unaffected.

Frankly, you should have done the equivalent of this back in 2008, and then we probably wouldn't have this situation now. My suggestion would ensure that new members are signing up because they want to join a Warhammer forum, but it would also ensure that members who signed up before then aren't penalised retrospectively. Thus fairness and practicality are combined. And, needless to say, there would be no need or incentive whatsoever to bend the rules for members who join after this date.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 13:37   #7 (permalink)
Nox
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

TK kinda has a point about the futility of setting a threshold policy that anyone can get around just by asking to be exempted. However, I do agree that you need to do something if you want to claim that the board is a 40K site first and foremost. Personally, I like this idea.

Quote:
All members who register after the 7th of January 2009 will need 250 posts to access the Enclave. All other members will be unaffected.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 13:46   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

Sorry, I meant January 2010, not 2009. I'm so used to writing the latter that I completely missed the mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox
However, I do agree that you need to do something if you want to claim that the board is a 40K site first and foremost.
Just for clarification, I do broadly agree with this. What I don't agree with is the methods that are currently being used to achieve this result.
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 14:22   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

I'm okay about the minimum Karma requirement (though now I have to be careful who, when and how I give out the Karmas); it does require a member to contribute to the forum.

I ain't too sure about the minimum post count; I can rake that number up within a month. I would suggest using a time period maybe say members need to spend at least a year in addition to Post Count. I still see members who are here for quite awhile but still lacks in the proper posting department.

Cooking and Culinary Board: Bad idea *Period*
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Old 07 Jan 2010, 14:34   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Recent Changes to the Enclave Access

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
I'm okay about the minimum Karma requirement (though now I have to be careful who, when and how I give out the Karmas); it does require a member to contribute to the forum.
The fact that a member has no positive karma does not imply that they have contributed nothing to the forum.
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