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Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 11:46   #31 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

I think you need to see a picture of the Banesword. See here: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_..._Banesword.pdf . There are some very minor differences on the Forge World sheet, but it's mostly the same as that. It's cannon isn't much shorter, but thinner, so it fires smaller shells, at a lower rate of fire than the Massive quake cannon on a titan. Now, I understand you don't want me to refer to Apocalypse, so if you can find me information on the Banesword somewhere else, I'll be happy to refer to it. If not, then please stop spamming the words 'apoc is fanwankery' and actually read what I write. The Quake cannon on the Banesword is like the Shaodwswords Volcano cannon - same weapon, modified for a Baneblade chassis.
To quote you:
Quote:
there may be a difference between a Goodwyn-Daes pattern Bolter and an Astartes pattern Bolter
A Goodwyn-Daes pattern bolter is smaller and easier for a non-superhuman to carry, while (fluffwise) slightly less effective. A Banesword Quake cannon is smaller and easier for a non-titan to mount, while slightly less effective.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 11:59   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Are you even listening? No, you're not.

Goodwyn-Daes Bolters fire .75 call Bolt rounds. Astartes bolters fire .75 cal Bolt rounds. Both are Bolters. You can't make a gun that fires .22 rounds and call it a Bolter.

And thus we return to my point; a Banesword cannot physically carry a Quake Cannon and a meaningful magazine. Ergo, the Banesword cannot possibly be armed with a Quake Cannon.

The fact the Apocalypse datasheet calls it a Quake Cannon is meaningless - the Emperor Titan datasheet doesn't actually let you create an Imperator (the ONLY Emperor that is ever mentioned these days), so Apocalypse really doesn't mean much.

Let us ignore the Banesword's fanwank and approach it from a logical perspective... prior to Apocalypse, what source material do we have on the Quake Cannon? Just about all of it comes from Epic, and it's pretty clear from that it is a monster of a gun. It is a massive, extreme range artillery cannon mounted on Warlord Titans to provide extreme range fire. I can't even find reference to it being mounted on a Reaver, so we are clearly dealing with a seriously heavy gun here!

You are attempting to find source material to justify it being mounted on a Knight. Well, there is a Knight with a Quake Cannon... but it is also armed with a pair of "Lascannons" that are larger than a Leman Russ! That does not make a good source for justification, since clearly the 'rules' of 40K weaponry had not been well established by that point (ie: that a laser weapon of that size is a Turbo Laser of some description). Plus, that particular variant of Knight has fallen out of favour canonically. Whilst Knights themselves (particularly the Paladin) are still recognised in canon, the Crusader is not referenced.

So, we look at the next logical step - the Shadowsword. The problem there is that all Titan-Destroyer Shadowsword variants that mount actual 'Titan' weapons all carry energy weapons. This is, as I have said, done for a reason - energy weapons do not need to worry about ammunition - the Shadowsword's technical specifications even go so far as to list the main gun as having "Unlimited" ammunition. The Stormblade's Plasma Blastgun does not have unlimited ammo, but plasma weapons have very, very efficient power cells - Plasma gun fuel cells are good for ten rounds, but an equivalent magazine of 5.54 rounds (used by modern assault rifles) would only carry two or three bullets! Therefore, we can reasonably conclude the same applies when dealing with larger plasma weapons.

Lastly, we should look at Shadowsword variants that do fire conventional munitions. Of those we have only one - the Stormsword. Stormswords are fitted with a unique siege cannon that fires 180kg rocket-propelled shells. It seems to be an up-gunned Medusa siege gun, but like the Medusa ammunition is a serious problem. Even with all the Shadowsword's capacitor banks and reactor taken out, the Stormsword Cannon only has twenty rounds. Coupled with a short range and a long reload time, this makes the Stormsword quite a vulnerable unit.

So, the Banesword supposedly mounts a Warlord Titan's artillery gun. Well by now you should already be able to see that ammunition is going to be a pain in the arse to deal with - this thing is firing obsurdly huge shells, which must be far larger than Stormsword shells if only because they need enough propellant to be launched 7km or more (extrapolating based on Epic ranges). The Banesword is a closed-top vehicle, making reloading her difficult - other, open-topped artillery can simply have Trojans drop off pallets of shells and keep firing all day long. Since the Quake Cannon is clearly massive, and clearly firing insanely huge shells, it is going to face the same problem of low firing rate the Stormsword does.

We then compound the problem by giving it the same +12[sup]o[/sup] elevation that all Shadowsword variants have, and we are left with one pathetic vehicle.

In summary, this vehicle has a small internal magazine; has a long reload time, and has a huge artillery gun that cannot be used as artillery and must fire over sights. Seriously, just how desperate must you be for a Titan-Destroyer to even begin to contemplate building this thing?

But regardless, all of this is actually a rather pointless aside - the weapon cannot be mounted on a Knight. The Quake Cannon is too massive for a Warhound Scout-Titan, and thus it is too massive for the Warhounds smaller, weaker little brother.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 14:02   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

The one thing I know about knights are that they are one man combat units. That means that they either operate like oversize sentinels or with MDU's.
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Old 14 Jun 2010, 05:21   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus who is really Wargamer
5.54 rounds (used by modern assault rifles)
Nit picky bit. It's 5.56. Might have just been a typo on your part.
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Old 14 Jun 2010, 05:56   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
Goodwyn-Daes Bolters fire .75 call Bolt rounds. Astartes bolters fire .75 cal Bolt rounds. Both are Bolters. You can't make a gun that fires .22 rounds and call it a Bolter.
Well, actually, given the power of the explosive filler used in Earthshaker shells I estimate that you could pretty easily pack grenade-level firepower into a .22 round... :P

There is also a bootleg boltgun available in the Calixis sector that uses some kind of flare.
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Old 14 Jun 2010, 18:30   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Thunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
Goodwyn-Daes Bolters fire .75 call Bolt rounds. Astartes bolters fire .75 cal Bolt rounds. Both are Bolters. You can't make a gun that fires .22 rounds and call it a Bolter.
Well, actually, given the power of the explosive filler used in Earthshaker shells I estimate that you could pretty easily pack grenade-level firepower into a .22 round... :P

There is also a bootleg boltgun available in the Calixis sector that uses some kind of flare.
That's not really a bolter though. They even remark that it's not as powerful. I'd bet it's more for intimidation than anything. :P
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Old 01 Jul 2010, 08:21   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blightedmarsh
The one thing I know about knights are that they are one man combat units. That means that they either operate like oversize sentinels or with MDU's.
Thank you. I just realized this had been resurrected or something I was hoping for an answer to my last question & this seems the closest to it. Just one last thing, what's an MDU? Did you mean MIU (Mind Interface Unit)? I need to know if it is a type of MIU as its a bit of a plot point for my story to have the highest ranking lord able to interface to an MIU.
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Old 01 Jul 2010, 08:50   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Knights are (or were) piloted via a Throne - a MIU system with a basic Machine Spirit slaved in. The Throne would need calibrating in a ritual known as the vigil, and once calibrated would take whatever attribute was most dominant in the pilot's mind during the proccess. For example, if the pilot was scared, the Knight will be hesistant to enter battle. If he was angry at a friend or relative, the Knight will always be hostile toward that individual.
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Old 01 Jul 2010, 18:12   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who knows about Knights? (and not the Rosen variety)

Ooh, this adds some interesting possibilities. Thanks again.
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