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Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 21:17   #1 (permalink)
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Default Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

Ok, so we all know that the Emperor is Revered as a god by the Imperium correct?

And we know that if enough people believe/feel something that it becomes manifested in the Warp correct?

Then would it not stand to reason that there are TWO Emperor's of Mankind?

One being the Golden Man/Shaman/Fluff piece of your choice that is sitting on the Golden Throne

With the other being the God-Emperor of the Warp, the being that causes the miracles to happen. The being that the humans are praying to.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 22:46   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

I personally believe that the latter one is the only one that's actually alive.

The most recent fluff seems to refer to the Emperor as a "carrion lord". Ie: he's dead in almost every conventional sense, and only remains alive at all by feeding on the souls of psykers.

In my opinion, the being that led the Great Crusade is dead. Gone, shot, killed, etc. However, the Emperor still survives in some form specifically because an "Emperor" deity has been created in the Warp by the worship of his people.

The only other options are that the Emperor was a god all along (which dosen't make sense) or there's two of him (which is unwieldy and confusing).
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 23:00   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

I don't buy into the shaman/golden man fluff in the slightest. I think the actual Emperor is a Warp Entity created by faith of the population of the Imperium and bound by the Golden Throne to the corpse of the original Emperor, through which the collected power of the Astronomicon is gathered and rebroadcast. So it is really the same individual. He was an exceptionally powerful psyker when he was alive, so it is likely that the Warp Entity arose out of and coincidentally with his own consciousness.
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 05:32   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

Reading this I had a thought. What if the warp entity existed first and forced itself into existance like a daemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
"carrion lord"
I disagree as to what that means. I think it is a reference to carrion birds who eat meat that is already dead. The bird is the Emperor and the flesh, psykers. It could refer to the fact that he himself doesn't act, in the same way a carrion bird doesn't kill its own food. Anyway isn't that one of the names given to him by chaos space marines?
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 06:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Seer
I disagree as to what that means. I think it is a reference to carrion birds who eat meat that is already dead. The bird is the Emperor and the flesh, psykers. It could refer to the fact that he himself doesn't act, in the same way a carrion bird doesn't kill its own food. Anyway isn't that one of the names given to him by chaos space marines?
Along with "Corpse-lord" or "that rotting corpse of the Golden Throne". Whatever the truth, most of the Traitor Legions are fairly certain that he is dead.
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 07:28   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

The "carrion lord" title is given to him by the 40K rulebook. The little blurb at the very beginning.

"For more then a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with the power of the Dark Age of technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls die each day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh, the stuff of which the Imperium is made."

This is more of an intro to the universe then the product of any specific faction (the player is even reffered to later on in the passage) so it can't be dismissed as Chaos propaganda.

Along with "Corpse-lord" or "that rotting corpse of the Golden Throne". Whatever the truth, most of the Traitor Legions are fairly certain that he is dead.

I can't quote a source (so I could be completley wrong), but I'm fairly sure the Eldar do as well. Which is far more conclusive evidence.
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 10:06   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

your sorta right, when the emperor mostly-kinda-sorta died his soul became the star child, which makes most of the "good" half of the warp, which is what the sensei use when they draw upon their psychic powers
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 18:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
I can't quote a source (so I could be completley wrong), but I'm fairly sure the Eldar do as well. Which is far more conclusive evidence.
The one time I've heard eldar refer to the emperor in fluff (page 39 of 3rd ed codex) they call him "that weakling seer you call Emperor"
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 20:34   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

your sorta right, when the emperor mostly-kinda-sorta died his soul became the star child, which makes most of the "good" half of the warp, which is what the sensei use when they draw upon their psychic powers

That particular fluff seems to have been ret-conned in the newer editions of the rulebook. I think it was 3rd ed that the Sensei were all destroyed (by the Imperium) as a chaos cult.

I've never bought the idea of the Emperor making the Warp "good" by his presence. Because I really dislike the idea of anything being that monstrously powerful. The very existance of such a being would render the rest of the universe pointless (as he could just wave his arms and steamroll them). Not to mention that a being that was that powerful would not have been mortally wounded by a mere Primarch.

Consider that no other race in the galaxy has ever tapped into this supposed "good" part of the Warp. The Eldar, a race who's minds shine in the Warp from infancy, know nothing about it. Ahriman knows nothing about it from all his extensive research. In order for it's existance to be possible, then these random little human shamans and mystics (Sensei) have to be several degrees of magnitude wiser then every other psychic being in the 40K universe. Which brings us back to the first point.
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Old 09 Oct 2007, 21:28   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thought on the Emperor's Godhood and The Warp

Faolin, the "good" warp is relative. The warp isn't good or evil, its just an ocean of energy that reflects the emotions and thoughts throughout history. What I think some people are saying in this topic is that yes, the Emperor was not a "god", but when he died his sould halfway went to the warp, and then everybody started worshipping him. And when a lot of people are expressing teh same emotions and thoughts, thats how warp gods are formed. Khorne being a reflection of hate, Nurgle decay, Tzeentch change, and Slaanesh pleasure. The warp god Emperor is different in that he isn't a reflection of an emotion, but what the Emperor was when he was alive because thats what trillions of humans believe in. And thats what exactly the warp is, if enough sentient being believe in something, it will be created in the warp.

Summary: So the Emperor during the Great Crusade is nothing but a vegetable on a huge life support system. The warp god "Emperor" exists simply because people believes he exists.
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