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Necrons - Bad for Fluff?
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 05:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

I've heard many elites of the game saying that Necrons "raped" or "murdered" the fluff of 40k...

I was just wondering, since I've only been playing for two years now...why is that? How did they murder fluff?
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 05:15   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

Uh ohes.. Not this argument.

Keep it civil, all of you. Thank god Wargamer is gone for this.
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 05:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

Apparently it's controversial. Personally I love my necrons and nothing anyone says is going to change that, so bring it on!

But I was just curious as to the arguement, I never hear plausible answers...
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 06:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

It's mostly the Old Ones that are ill-received.

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=24179.0
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 07:01   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

Oooh I see. The Fluff that involves the other races, not necessarily Necron Fluff. Thanks.

Read those arguements, and I think I agree that it could be better. But who's couldn't?

Ya, the C'tan probably shouldn't be fieldable. Thanks for the link, helps me understand.
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 10:27   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

I'm kind of tired today, but alongside Wargamer, I'm one of the beginner opponents of Necron fluff, and I'll give my main reasons, but not going into as much detail as I'd like tol because I can't be bothered to go in depth right now.


The Problem is Context

Firstly, the problem of fear

Firstly, I'm going to ask you a few very general questions. And just stay with me because my way of getting to the point on this topic involves going all around the world. Now I'm going to ask, what do you fear more? What you see or what you do not see? What you can comprehend, or what you cannot comprehend?

What we cannot comprehend, the eldritch, the surreal, always has a tinge of horror that cannot be matched by the mundane. What is psychological horror? The term gets tossed around more than salad at christmas by journalists these days, but psychological horror is basically the horror of that we do not fully understand. Why was Samara in The Ring scarier because you didn't know her motive and her face was never seen? Nor was the way she kills? To most people, the unknown is scary.

Now, when many people try to convey the mood of warhammer 40k, which is anything but your stock standard sci fi, a lot of people will say it's gothic, whilst some others might add that it's even Lovecraftian. That hits it right on the spot actually.

Quote:
Lovecraftian horror is a sub-genre of horror fiction which emphasizes the psychological horror of the unknown (in some cases, unknowable) -- Wikipedia
Fairly succinct, now you have to understand, it's a matter of context here. Most of the people who claim that stuff about gothicness and lovecraftian, they entered the game when it was truly that. Everything was creepy and not quite right. Cloaked the mystique. Eldar were bloodthirsty pirates that appeared randomly. Genestealers was a most deadly plague of no known origins. Exploring abandoned space hulks was a big thing. Conspiracies at every corner, daemons and god knows what. Over the years, the context of warhammer changed. It's now much more about big guns and spacemarines. Darker and grittier toned games like Inquisitor and Necromunda are no longer in prominence.

Now the necrons and the Ctan, they were the ultimate embodiment of lovecraftian horror. Nobody knows what the necrons do, they appear, they're deadly and efficient, heck, most players didn't even see a necron army, just hear about how good they are on the battlefeild. They appeared in small numbers and wiped everything from their paths.

The Ctan, that was even better. Here the fluff became truly limited. You enter into the realm of guesswork, crazy conspiracy theories and disjointed pieces of fluff containing the vaguest references. They were one of the few races that even the Eldar feared and rarely spoke of. Their quiescent perils lay beyond the Gates of Varl. It was a truly disturbing concept of this incredibly enigmatic race of beings that doesn't even exist on the same plane as the mortal aliens. The embodied the fear of the unknown.


And then came the Necron codex. My god, everything is explained to details that we should never know or want to know. Their existence, their motives, their history, their past. We understood everything about them, and they became nothing. Their aura was gone, now nobody was afraid of the Necrons. They became another MEQ army with their own detached and irrelevant plot. Alongside this, the plots of the Ctan, the Brainboyz and the Enslavers were also completely revealed to our dismay. There was no more fear of the unknown.

Now for new players entering, that's perfectly fine. They entered the hobby when it's about big guns and bigger armour. Necrons were just another race, fairly unique at that. They cannot empathize with the sheer frustration felt by the older players. To them, the greater amount of fluff means greater immersion. But they don't understand that Necrons, like the Tyranids, are not a first person faction. They're a third person faction, you don't need to know about them. The less you knew about them, the more they were.


Archetypes

Precursors, Time Lords, Xel Naga, Old Ones from Fantasy, The Eternal Ones, those giants in Warcraft 3, how many of these big ancient all prevailing god like races do we need? 40k always distinguished itself as a more nihilistic game, full of grim reality and a certain bluntness about it all.

Now all of a sudden we have the Old Ones and their war against the Necrons. Before the inception of the Necron Codex, the game was already complete. They came in and they had no relevance at all to the plot. We spent so much time developing races stories that we don't care about for a not very popular army's background. Too much extra information and it didn't even fit. If necrons now became the most ancient and advanced race, where does that put Eldar? If they now became the most evil and destructive to life, where does that put Chaos? If the Ctans are now the dark gods we should all fear where does that put the 4 powers of Chaos? Every archetype the player knew and was comfortable with was completely shattered. The Necrons suddenly took just about every single role there is, leaving every other race second at their own game.

In short, they made the story too complex, too many story threads take away from the gravitas of the main story line, diverts attention, and players don't even know what to follow. We're given extra background of no relevance to anybody but the necrons, and none of the players at that time needed it.

Once again, the context was important. The new players came in and just can't understand what all the fuss is about. To them, looking at things on one level, clearly the necrons are the most ancient race, clearly the ctans are the most unthinkable evils, they can take the fluff in as a whole now, and they're not concerned about what it used to be like before they even played.









There's a few other reasons, but that's my ramblings for now.
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 11:28   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

Dont you hate it when you do a long post an then click backspace and it send you pack one page... Beautifull.

In short I said that the above post is perfect... Its like, What does the tyranid hive mind look like? Or is the Emporer accualy still alive?

Its better when you dont know.

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Old 09 Aug 2007, 11:32   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

While I agree with Crazed & Wargamer on the Necron point, I'm going to take a slightly different approach to this.

Simply, the Necrons make for bad fluff because - well, because they're not needed. The GW universe was fairly complete before their inception. The stories behind the origins of the Eldar, the War in Heaven, the sporing of the Orks...all of that was fairly well done.

Then, some mon-keigh GW writer said "hey...let's make a 40K undead army..." they took the existing Necron storyline, changed it and augmented then cast it into a giant wedge. They inserted that wedge into the 40K universe and pounded away until it was made to fit.

The Necrons changed the storylines of many races from human-Pariahs to Orks to Eldar. And everything became the Necron's fault. The Orks are created - it's the Necron's fault. Khaine is indestroyable - it's the Necron's fault. George Bush is elected to office - it's the Necron's fault.

More, directly, though, the C'tan's fault. The C'tan became the god entities in 40K. They seem to even surpass the Chaos gods in terms of manupulation and control.

The worst part is - the Necrons are bound to win. They are nearly indestructable. They destroy everything. And there are millions of them hidden on tomb worlds, on barren planets, and in the back of my freezer. They're everywhere. Part of the fun of the Eldar is not knowing what will happen to them versus Chaos. With the Necrons we know - they'll eventually win.

Actually, for that matter, the Grim Darkness of the Far Future really boils down to two options - with the Necrons or the Tyranids devour everything first?
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 17:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

Quote:
The worst part is - the Necrons are bound to win. They are nearly indestructable. They destroy everything. And there are millions of them hidden on tomb worlds, on barren planets, and in the back of my freezer. They're everywhere. Part of the fun of the Eldar is not knowing what will happen to them versus Chaos. With the Necrons we know - they'll eventually win.

Actually, for that matter, the Grim Darkness of the Far Future really boils down to two options - with the Necrons or the Tyranids devour everything first?
See, the way the game works, all the bad guy armies are going to win...If Orks ever united they "would crush all opposition". The tyranids can not be stopped. The Necrons are indestructible and number in the millions. Chaos is everywhere.

Nevermind...not all the bad guy armies. Dark Eldar won't ever win, they'll just survive.

But you know, now that I think about it, I kind of agree. Despite the fact that I love Necrons, I think the C'tan could be knocked down a peg...(I mean...the Creators of the Universe had to fight them? What?)

But what it seems like to me is it's not that Ork players are complaining, or Imperials, or anyone else. It's hardcore Eldar players who liked the fact that *they* were the high and mighty race. I think Eldar are awesome for the fact that, although they are far better than humans in almost every way, they have a very human feel about them (such as their fall and their pride).

But now I understand, so thank you for your input. Perhaps Necron Fluff could be reworked some.
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Old 09 Aug 2007, 19:52   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Necrons - Bad for Fluff?

I'm a huge fan of Necron fluff, but like crazedmongoose pointed out, I'm a new player and I was introduced to 40k after the Necrons were already the big bad guys.

I'd like the Necrons to have had some large scale battle, win or lose. What I'd love is Imperial Armor X: The battle of Y, which is for the crons what the Taros campaign is for the Tau, or the Vraks campaign is for the Death Corps of Kreeg. A more careful examination of the actual mechanics of the Necrons planned Harvest of all life. Currently you have to crib from BFG, the Medusa V fluff, the codex, etc. If we are not going to have the lovecraftean (which also might have been cool, I don't know, I wasn't there) horror thing going on, then give us the same volume of info the Dark Angels get.
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