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Space Marine Conquest Tactics
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 10:44   #1 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Split from a topic on Tau medicine... - Khanaris

Here's a quiz for you; how many Marines does it take to make a Planet surrender? ZERO! All you have to do is make them think Marines are coming, and they drop their guns. Five Marines can conquer a planet in a single, surgical strike; they are unstoppable gods of war the likes of which most men cannot comprehend. There are few things in the galaxy that can take a Marine one-on-one.

If you want to see what I mean, watch the "Dalek vs Cybermen" episode of Dr Who. The British Army only killed one Cyberman in the space of two Episodes, and that was with a rocket launcher; you just can't kill Marines!
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 12:01   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Five Marines can conquer a planet in a single, surgical strike; they are unstoppable gods of war the likes of which most men cannot comprehend. There are few things in the galaxy that can take a Marine one-on-one.
Yes, but a single surgical strike is going to do what to an army? Nothing.

They're powerful, alright, much more so than Bugga would seem to believe they are, and they could probably kill off a planet's worth of soldiers anyways, but they aren't going to do it in a surgical strike.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 12:39   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-General Thunder
Yes, but a single surgical strike is going to do what to an army? Nothing.
What planet do you live on?

There is a piece about Stormtroopers wiping out an Ork Army in one attack; about a platoons worth grav-chute into the middle of the camp at night, kill the Warboss and his mob, and have the Orks annihilated within ten minutes. If Stormtroopers can do that, what do you think Marines will do?

Let's have us a reality check here; let's play the "Imperium invades Earth" game. George Dubya makes some speach about how America will never surrender, and then a Drop Pod slams through the White House ceiling. Next thing you know, Captain Cassius snaps Bush in two (literally) and demands immediate surrender.

In 30 seconds, they have taken out the highest authority figure on the planet without even firing a shot. Would you want to see what happens when they get pissed? Hell no! This is how Marines conquer worlds; they destroy the chain of command, and everything else surrenders.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 12:51   #4 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Y'know, reading that made me come over all tingly.

It is true though - one of the best ways of defeating an enemy is not to actually destroy their armed forces, but rather to destroy their will to fight. Shock and Awe, and all that.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 17:11   #5 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-General Thunder
Yes, but a single surgical strike is going to do what to an army? Nothing.
What planet do you live on?
Carida. (anybody who can figure that one out gets an invisible cookie)

Quote:
There is a piece about Stormtroopers wiping out an Ork Army in one attack; about a platoons worth grav-chute into the middle of the camp at night, kill the Warboss and his mob, and have the Orks annihilated within ten minutes. If Stormtroopers can do that, what do you think Marines will do?
They must be pretty small armies, to be wiped out my such a small force. :huh:

Think; how many bolts can a Space Marine carry for his boltgun? Let's say 600 (60 bolts x 10 clips). Even assuming every shot hits its mark, that's just a few thousand Orks. Hardly anything to sneeze at, but when you realized that the squabbling factions of Earth can produce million-man standing armies, that's not really that much of a loss...

Quote:
Let's have us a reality check here; let's play the "Imperium invades Earth" game. George Dubya makes some speach about how America will never surrender, and then a Drop Pod slams through the White House ceiling. Next thing you know, Captain Cassius snaps Bush in two (literally) and demands immediate surrender.

In 30 seconds, they have taken out the highest authority figure on the planet without even firing a shot. Would you want to see what happens when they get pissed? Hell no! This is how Marines conquer worlds; they destroy the chain of command, and everything else surrenders.
Killing the President of the United States is not a good way to get people to surrender. That'll just piss them off.

Extend to planetary scale.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 18:12   #6 (permalink)
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Actually, I disagree.

Firstly, we all know Orks live by "Might is Right". Kill a hundred Orks, and they'll send three hundred more. Kill the boss, and they will fragment.

Secondly, armies and people need leadership. An armed mob with loads of balls when shouting at each other in the pub who shit themselves when a living tank fires a rocket launcher are far easier to break than a drilled military. Besides, intelligence kicks in; the Imperium kills the government, instates its own, and promises not to crucify anyone who bows in obedience. Job done.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 18:52   #7 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Five Space Marines being sent against a planet. What'd they come with:

- Presumably a Strike Cruiser (that makes sense to me, especially for 'well endowed' Chapters), but lets assume they're cheapskates. Let's say they come with on Gladius class Frigate.
- This Frigate will carry...perhaps plenty of drop pods for whatever needs done, plenty resupply ammunition (which can be sent by drop pod, presumably), perhaps a Rhino or Razorback, a lone Thunderhawk or three (inc a Transporter or Lander to deploy any vehicles that come).
- The weapons of the small Escort class vessel.
- The crew, in the form of serfs and servitors. So plenty of 'able bodied' soldiers who'd be able to do menial tasks (hold ground, fight an army, etc etc)


Against Earth, we'd have...what...to fight it with? Plenty of soldiers, aircraft and missiles. We can assume that the defenses of the Escort are sufficient that all our weapons are useless against it (assuming Torchwood doesn't exist).

Anyhow...we can also assume that:
- Imperial Reinforcements won't be too far behind Space Marines (new Arbites, garrison troops, Adeptus Terra and Mechanicus officials, Ecclessiarchy Officials etc)
- Most, but not all nations will side against the Imperium
- There'll be a couple of surrender monkeys, let's propose Iceland, Slovakia, Australia, Japan, North and (curiously) South Korea


What could the Marines do to make us crumble?
- Drop pod strikes against...leaders, supply depots, power stations, fuel lines, water pipers...the lot...y'know. Perhaps even start destroying some natural wonders and/or artefacts of history.

What could we do to stop them?
- Not very much.

Military leaderships would be the most troublesome for the Marines to take...but even then...Marines...

Anyhow, this isn't important. The point was Tau medicine!
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 19:02   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xisor
- There'll be a couple of surrender monkeys, let's propose Iceland, Slovakia, Australia, Japan, North and (curiously) South Korea
*cough*France*cough*
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 20:13   #9 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xisor
<stuff>
For all that wonderful stuff, there's a few problems;
1. Whatever the ship is, unless the Imperium has space superiority already and has neutralized the planet's surface defenses (in which case they should have surrendered already anyways), the defenders can strike back at the cruiser.
2. The defenders will have weapons that can injure and/or kill Space Marines in spite of their armour and augmentations (Seriously. A few Griffon mortars and they're done, even in fluff.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Actually, I disagree.

Firstly, we all know Orks live by "Might is Right". Kill a hundred Orks, and they'll send three hundred more. Kill the boss, and they will fragment.
Then it is a weakness of the target that the Marines have exploited, rather than a hard and fast rule that can be applied to anything. People aren't Orks. Kill off their leader, and another steps in to take his place.

Marines are excellent for surgical strikes. But excluding special cases, a Combat Squad or even a Tactical Squad isn't going to be able to do much with a single hit-and-run.
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Old 25 Jul 2007, 20:21   #10 (permalink)
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Default Space Marine Conquest Tactics

Marines in the current era aren't really suited to taking a planet. They are deployed where the mission objectives require them. Imperial Guard are much better equipped to run an occupation. The Marines would only be deployed against the hardest targets, and then withdrawn when the mission was complete. They would be wasted on garrison duty or simple land grabs. Against Earth or a planet like it, I imagine they would never have a good reason to be deployed.

I am splitting this whole mass of posts off and sending it to 40k Universe.

So it would really be down to a token show of force. The Space Marines could destroy any facility on Earth they could find, and there is no real way to retaliate with our current weapons short of luring them into a trap (which hundreds of years of accumulated personal experience in the art of warfare makes rather difficult). If they were Terminators with access to teleporters, it gets even harder.

But they still have to conquer with the threat of violence rather than actual attacks. They simply don't have the manpower or the civil infrastructure to actually invest a conquered planet. All they can do is crush resistance where it crops up noticeably. Some chapters, such as the Black Templar, do have a lot more experience with this sort of thing.
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