Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Mad theory on STC's
Reply
Old 29 Jun 2007, 02:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Mad theory on STC's

So here it is. We know that we are (or will be) the Golden men. We also know that the Golden men build Standard Template Constructs which were supposed to be able to allow anyone to build complex devices. STC's are supposed to create a lot of one type of good over and over again to the same quality.

What if STC's are simply self-contained assembly lines? Honore Blanc and Eli Witney revolutionized the world with the idea of interchangable parts. Before Blanc's interchangable parts for fire arms, every weapon had to be custom made by hand and would fit only itself. However, Blanc revolutionized weapon manufacturing by creating parts that would work with any gun.

This idea went on to spark the Industrial Revolution and, ultimately, create the economy we know today. In this economy, a single human who lacks technical expertise can still build (or contribute to the building) of a device or good that he would not normally be able to build.

So what if STC's were simply assembly lines? The Imperium doesn't seem to have the capacity or understanding of interchangable parts (at least not that I have seen) and, if they lost the idea, it would be equally as mysterious and mystical to them as it was to the people in Blanc's day. This mystery and "mythology" of the STC's could lead to the false belief that they are somewhat magical or special beyond the simple idea of making parts that are interchangable.

Anyway, thoughts are welcome.
Em
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 Jun 2007, 03:25   #2 (permalink)
Aun
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Look behind you
Posts: 2,644
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's


Well, the problem is there was only one STC. The STC was a big machine that could produce designs for just about anything. These designs where extremely simple and easy to manufacture. (Rhinos) The original STC was destroyed/lost, but it's designs are still around and are searched for by explorers. These designs allow humans to construct anything from a Land Raider to a lamp post.
__________________
And yet, unless my senses deceive me, the old centuries had, and have, powers of their own which mere "modernity" cannot kill ~ Bram Stoker's Dracula
Aun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jun 2007, 00:41   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 892
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

From the reading I've done, STCs seem to be like files - a file on how to construct something, like better steel for a cutting blade. If there was just one in the past STC, they've long since become fragmented.

The idea makes alot of sense to me. I mean, if an STC was attached to a colonization party, the group would still need a means to make it useful - what better idea, than making it one whole package?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jun 2007, 05:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,194
Send a message via AIM to Vash113 Send a message via Yahoo to Vash113
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

Quote:
Originally Posted by E7 (Aun)

Well, the problem is there was only one STC. The STC was a big machine that could produce designs for just about anything. These designs where extremely simple and easy to manufacture. (Rhinos) The original STC was destroyed/lost, but it's designs are still around and are searched for by explorers. These designs allow humans to construct anything from a Land Raider to a lamp post.
The newer fluff seems to contradict that.

The STC's appear to now be Data Files in the purest forms, containing information on various things. Thus a complete STC would include all the data on old human Technology, but there appears to be no remaining complete STC and instead fragments have been scattered all over, individual files on particular things, thus the Imperium rarely locates STCs and when they do they only contain a few files or just one.

For instance the book Dark Adeptus includes the STC for the Castigator Class Titan. It appears the Imperium only discovered fragments of that particular STC which explains why the Imperium's Titans don't come close to matching the complexity or potency of the pure Castigator class.
__________________



Vash113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jun 2007, 16:17   #5 (permalink)
Aun
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Look behind you
Posts: 2,644
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

Quote:
For instance the book Dark Adeptus includes the STC for the Castigator Class Titan. It appears the Imperium only discovered fragments of that particular STC which explains why the Imperium's Titans don't come close to matching the complexity or potency of the pure Castigator class.
That also contradicts fluff. The titans where supposed to have been made by the Mechanicus after the STC's where lost. There for there should not be any STC's on them and the Mechanicus has full knowledge of how they are constructed.
__________________
And yet, unless my senses deceive me, the old centuries had, and have, powers of their own which mere "modernity" cannot kill ~ Bram Stoker's Dracula
Aun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jun 2007, 17:02   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,194
Send a message via AIM to Vash113 Send a message via Yahoo to Vash113
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

Quote:
Originally Posted by E7 (Aun)
That also contradicts fluff. The titans where supposed to have been made by the Mechanicus after the STC's where lost. There for there should not be any STC's on them and the Mechanicus has full knowledge of how they are constructed.
Not necessarily. The Castigator STC was lost. THough for the Mechanicus to have even created the Titans they would have needed at least fragments of the STC to re-create the technology. The Mechanicus doesn't really ever design anything "new" they find old technology and either reverse engineer it and reproduce it, or copy it.

Just because an STC is lost doesn't mean it can't be found. Now when an STC is completely destroyed that's another matter, but there could still be an immense ammount of STCs out there, perhaps even a complete one that no-one has found yet. Occasionally new STCs are discovered, and who knows what hides in the depths of Mars where not a soul has been for tens of thousands of years.
__________________



Vash113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Jul 2007, 10:06   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

I think some clarification is needed here.

People are, quite wrongly, using the phrase STC to describe the STC TEMPLATES.

There are no STCs left. They were all destroyed, and none have ever been found (yes, some BL books say otherwise, but core Canon states there are none left).

However, the Templates the STC devices made remain. These data-files can contain plans for everything from tractors to Emperor Titans.

The STC itself is not a blueprint, nor is it a production line; it is a design program. You type in what you need, and what you have to build with, and the STC will come up with the most efficient design. That is all it does. The subsequent designs were produced in STC Templates, and it is these the Adeptus Mechanicus guard.

Curiously, the most common STC Templates are not what you'd expect. For example, Templates for the Rhino have been found across the galaxy, whereas the Land Crawler (a tractor, basically) was only recorded found by Arkham Land, along with his infamous Land Raider, and the anti-grav technology that led to the Land Speeder.

It is more than likely that Titans were built using STC Templates. Even if the entire Titan was not available in blueprint form, the various components such as VSGs, Joint Aculators, Reactors, Weapons, MIUs and everything else would be available in seperate Templates, and its just a case of putting them all together.


The only anomaly with the STC Templates is how exactly they work. Few Forgeworlds can produce the Leman Russ Executioner, for example (Ryza being the only one listed). Now, assuming they have an STC Template, surely they could just copy it and share it around? If we assume for a moment the Ad-Mechs aren't all inbred to the point of mental retardation (which they probably are), then logically the reason only Ryza builds the Executioner is only Ryza has a Template. If only an STC unit could create and/or copy a Template, then it would explain why the Templates are so valuable, and why vehicles like the Rhino and Leman Russ are so very common (lots of copies of the Template) whilst others are virtually unheard of, despite being of similar (or even inferior) technological design.
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Jul 2007, 11:15   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Behind you
Posts: 19,399
Send a message via MSN to ForbiddenKnowledge
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

It is often mentioned in fluff that the Standard Template Construct is like a highly advanced computer program - think of it like this. A replicator, from Star Trek. In ST, you enter what you want, and it is created. With the STC, you enter what you need (Something to catch fish! Something to Kill Orks!) and the materials available, and it creates the most efficient design, using what you have available.

The templates it then makes can be used to create it - which is why you can have efficient wood burning engined Leman Russ', or Rhino's with Aluminum armor, treated to give the same protection as the ideal material etc.

The STC was a repository of everything humanity knew, plus a massively powerful computer, which then calculated what was needed, be it a fishing rod to a warp engine.

__________________
[quote]Thou shalt not crave thy neighbour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim.
Rafe is damn sexy once he gets into his night attire.
ForbiddenKnowledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 Jul 2007, 17:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away.....
Posts: 478
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

maybe the STC tempaltes are a device that you plug into your manufacturing faciilies cotigator and then it gets the spec for your manufacturing capacity and then takes the availible materials and builds the best version of whatever is on the STC template, that would explain why the STC "constructor" in the BL fiction could be canon, it was just a super-advanced manufacturing facility with a "regular" STC tempalte plugged in
__________________
Return If Possible, RIP KJ

"Life liberty and the pursuit of cheese"- Me

All the tau have to worrie about is going off course, not having their souls eaten and their bodies being worn as a tuxedo to a slaughter-party

"And we shall know fear!"-honored battle cry of the SMs also known as Sissy Marines. The chapter was later declared Worthless Extrimis after crying when shot at by Orks in the chapters first engagment. In the AER (After Execution Review) Inquistor Exter said "It was just breaking my heart to see those grown marines cry."

Tau Wins: 2 Draws:0 Losses: 0
SMs Wins: 64 Draw
Bob the Avenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 Jul 2007, 07:01   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,194
Send a message via AIM to Vash113 Send a message via Yahoo to Vash113
Default Re: Mad theory on STC's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
I think some clarification is needed here.

People are, quite wrongly, using the phrase STC to describe the STC TEMPLATES.

There are no STCs left. They were all destroyed, and none have ever been found (yes, some BL books say otherwise, but core Canon states there are none left).

However, the Templates the STC devices made remain. These data-files can contain plans for everything from tractors to Emperor Titans.

The STC itself is not a blueprint, nor is it a production line; it is a design program. You type in what you need, and what you have to build with, and the STC will come up with the most efficient design. That is all it does. The subsequent designs were produced in STC Templates, and it is these the Adeptus Mechanicus guard.

Curiously, the most common STC Templates are not what you'd expect. For example, Templates for the Rhino have been found across the galaxy, whereas the Land Crawler (a tractor, basically) was only recorded found by Arkham Land, along with his infamous Land Raider, and the anti-grav technology that led to the Land Speeder.

It is more than likely that Titans were built using STC Templates. Even if the entire Titan was not available in blueprint form, the various components such as VSGs, Joint Aculators, Reactors, Weapons, MIUs and everything else would be available in seperate Templates, and its just a case of putting them all together.


The only anomaly with the STC Templates is how exactly they work. Few Forgeworlds can produce the Leman Russ Executioner, for example (Ryza being the only one listed). Now, assuming they have an STC Template, surely they could just copy it and share it around? If we assume for a moment the Ad-Mechs aren't all inbred to the point of mental retardation (which they probably are), then logically the reason only Ryza builds the Executioner is only Ryza has a Template. If only an STC unit could create and/or copy a Template, then it would explain why the Templates are so valuable, and why vehicles like the Rhino and Leman Russ are so very common (lots of copies of the Template) whilst others are virtually unheard of, despite being of similar (or even inferior) technological design.
Actually the book Dark Adeptus does say they found an actual STC, not a Template it was the real thing. The datacore making up the STC had over time become possessed and taken on a daemonic form, though it took the STC a very long time to realise it. The AI was so sophisticated and powerful that it was able to do that. The STC had designed the Father of Titans, the Castigator class. Alaric (the Grey Knight Justicar) takes quite some time to figure out just what he's fighting.

Of course that all must be taken with a grain of salt (or much more) but it seems to have gotten the basic principles down. Of course it can also sort of fit in with the core fluff since official Imperial records would still show that no STC has ever been found, because the survivors were all either members of the Inquisition, Grey Knights (and one tech priest alive in pure data sent directly to Mars) the official records on the event would be Inquisitorially sealed and there were no witnessess (that survived anyway). I'm not sure if the author planned that, or how well they know their fluff but it's not the worst Black Library book I've ever read and it does sort of show an interresting possibility for STCs.
__________________



Vash113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just a little theory majonga Tau 1 18 Apr 2009 20:33
Markerlight Theory Gorin Tau 20 25 Mar 2009 08:59
Music theory Daienden The Music Forum 3 20 Jul 2008 03:48
Theory wyrd_ian Painting 10 08 Apr 2007 14:16
Interesting Analysis' on the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory Tau Tau Enclave Talk 6 08 Apr 2005 02:02