Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

and anti-Eldar bias
Reply
Old 03 Apr 2007, 06:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 1,336
Send a message via AIM to Wingates_hellsing Send a message via Yahoo to Wingates_hellsing
Default and anti-Eldar bias

So i was looking through a book store the other day and i picked up the new Eldar novel, i bought it and after the first few chapters i realized. "another book and or story that shows the WORST possible side of the craftworld Eldar!" i mean these things do happen, but where are the stories about Eldar that dont bash them for being either petty, warlike, and or outright stupid!?!
__________________
I bet I have more hobbies than you do.
Wingates_hellsing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Apr 2007, 06:29   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Aus
Posts: 7,853
Send a message via MSN to crazedmongoose2003
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

What's the book?

See, I thought the only novel to be really focused on the Eldar, Farseer on William King, showed the Eldar in a quite positive light.


And the original Jaq Draco novels treated the eldar fairly too.
__________________
Holding a Tau Online Vassal League, click here for more info:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,86474.0.html
crazedmongoose2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Apr 2007, 06:32   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 1,336
Send a message via AIM to Wingates_hellsing Send a message via Yahoo to Wingates_hellsing
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Eldar Prophesy by C.S. Gotto
It depicts a craftworld of eldar that have fallen to decadence.
My point is that since those two books, (so long ago) i have struggled to find positive Eldar stories. i think the most recent posetive one was a short story about how a bunch of space marines didn't trust the Eldar but it turned out the Eldar wer right only now theyve lost 2 marine companies a world of villegers and a few dozen Eldar.
__________________
I bet I have more hobbies than you do.
Wingates_hellsing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Apr 2007, 10:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Aus
Posts: 7,853
Send a message via MSN to crazedmongoose2003
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Hmm, I'm going to blame the mindless masses and their perception of the warhammer universe here.


See, usually, the best of stories and multi-faceted and complex, Warhammer 40k especially involves a multipolar universe of ambiguous moral relativism, added with a good dash of nihilism.

But the problem is, and this happens a lot with sci-fi and fantasy fans, they can't deal with a complex story like this, they have this subconscious tendency to implement and good evil dichotomy on everything.

Generally the archetype within fantasy and sci-fi is that if a character looks good, then he/she is good, if they're ugly then they're probably evil. (I'm looking at YOU TOLKIEN!!) As a result, Eldar and Imperium were always traditionally seen as the "good race" when really, those in the know realize that both factions are selfish killers and are just trying to pragmatically do what they can to survive.


And in the past gamesworkshop has time and time again tried to break this misconception, "trust not in the appearance of the eldar, for they are utterly alien to good honest man as the blah blah blah".

But does anybody listen? No, all the "alliance fanboys" (taken from the WoW players who play alliance cos alliance have pretty characters, usually also the immature idiots) tries to group the Eldar and The Imperium together. Which forces GW to release more and more negative materials to try to break that misconception, to the point where those who had it figured out in the first place now see an anti eldar bias.


But the point is, GW is wasting their time, because there's just no way to get around this entire stupid good evil dichotomy, we're into post-modernism and cultural relativism for what, 40 years now? People still can't get this idea into their neanderthal heads, it's ridiculous. So really there's nothing you can do about it.


And that was surprisingly eloquent for someone whose just had a 12 hour day, I almost feel like giving myself a karma. :P
__________________
Holding a Tau Online Vassal League, click here for more info:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,86474.0.html
crazedmongoose2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Apr 2007, 19:54   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,584
Send a message via AIM to Gatler Send a message via MSN to Gatler
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

I don't see the Imperium as good. I see some parts of it as good, but mostly evil. The Eldar are evil. The Orks are evil. Chaos is indisputably evil. The Tyranids are evil. The Dark Eldar are definitely evil. The Tau are the closest thing that 40K has to 'good guys', but their Empire is so tiny they can't make a difference, and are liable to be wiped out some day.

What annoys me is people who portray the entire universe one way in the rulebooks and codices and everything, and then turn around and try to say its completely different in the fluff.

Like Orks being intelligent, for example. They feed us all this information that would lead you to believe they aren't too smart. Then they state, without blinking, that they are just as smart as your average human.

Oh, that, and Space Marines. I don't care what they did to you when you were a child. You will die when I shoot you in the chest with a krak warhead! End of story. >

You need heroes for your stories. Otherwise, the only ones you'll interest are the English teachers... and that's not a good thing... :
__________________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

"Forgive you? Of course I forgive you. That is your god's function. Your crime is forgiven. However, your stupidity requires a response." - Leto Atreides II, God Emperor of Dune
Gatler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Apr 2007, 07:29   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 353
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Heys, don't blame Tolkein here. Tom Bombadil ain't the most attractive thing in the world. :P
But the fact of the matter is that everything in the 40K universe is evil to some extent. It truly is a 'real' universe, in as much as the characters within it are 3-D. Evil is purely a matter of opinion. Even most Chaos Marines believe they are doing the right thing, by attempting to destroy the 'False Emperor'. And even the so-called Good Guys Tau are evil to someone, to some degree, they are massive expansionists who rrefuse to accept any other theological philosophy, and, while not as Xenophobic as the Imperium and on a smaller scale, are still pretty narrow-minded.
__________________
XV18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Apr 2007, 07:40   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Aus
Posts: 7,853
Send a message via MSN to crazedmongoose2003
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Exactly, see we can all see that here, but then amongst the common players there is an undeniable good evil dichotomy.


And poor GW has to work hard to dispel that, and when Eldar are the race most subjected to being portrayed as the good race (helped no small amount by their elven look) then GW will need to constantly release fluff to try to change this perception.
__________________
Holding a Tau Online Vassal League, click here for more info:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,86474.0.html
crazedmongoose2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Apr 2007, 09:36   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

There are other ways of making Eldar appear evil besides making them incompetent or obviously Chaotic (which is what many of the book's I've heard about try to do).

For example, have Eldar ally with Imperials for half the book. Have the same Eldar backstab and kill the favourite character on the Imperial side. You can go even more flamboyant. Think Stirking Scorpions breaking into a school or nursery. I think Dawn of War did this relativley well. Whilst the Eldar were a little too......... unsubtle for my taste, they certainly don't mess around. The Farseer's first reaction to the Space Marines ignoring her advice about Chaos is to order her Aspect Warriors to "Take the human down!".

Whilst I admit Eldar are given too much of a "good" reputation, they definetley aren't stupid, and they generally know what they are doing far more then their Imperial counterparts. It's when stories forget this that I get annoyed.
__________________


There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Karamazov

What do you humans know of our pain? We have sang songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea - Eldrad Ulthran
Faolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Apr 2007, 10:19   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Aus
Posts: 7,853
Send a message via MSN to crazedmongoose2003
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Oh so the newer books are depicting eldar as incompetent?!

Well in that case I have NFI what's going on there, cos Eldar's interests might conflict with the Imperium's, but they're definitely competent.

Yeah the Eldar in DoW were cool in their "my way or the highway" attitude, unfortunately the computer plays them really badly.
__________________
Holding a Tau Online Vassal League, click here for more info:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,86474.0.html
crazedmongoose2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04 Apr 2007, 10:28   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: and anti-Eldar bias

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
For example, have Eldar ally with Imperials for half the book. Have the same Eldar backstab and kill the favourite character on the Imperial side. You can go even more flamboyant. Think Stirking Scorpions breaking into a school or nursery. I think Dawn of War did this relativley well. Whilst the Eldar were a little too......... unsubtle for my taste, they certainly don't mess around. The Farseer's first reaction to the Space Marines ignoring her advice about Chaos is to order her Aspect Warriors to "Take the human down!".

Whilst I admit Eldar are given too much of a "good" reputation, they definetley aren't stupid, and they generally know what they are doing far more then their Imperial counterparts. It's when stories forget this that I get annoyed.
It's not so much about good & evil as it is about survival. In order to survive, the Eldar must sometimes backstab, make "evil" deals, or do things that might appear absolutely wrong to outsiders. However, to the Eldar, it is merely survival - no worse than a modern human putting down a dog or exterminating some pest. Humans infect rats with fatal diseases in an effort to cure humans. The majority of humans find the process completely acceptable because human life is valued higher than rodent life.

The same is true for Eldar. They value Eldar life above all others. Therefore, it's okay to "use" other races or exterminate them for the good of the Eldar.

How much worse is it when the Imperium sucks the life out of thousands of psykers to run the Astronomicon beacon or obliterates worlds because of threatening mutations? How does the Imperium justify the often fatal transformation into a Space Marine? The wrath of the Inquisition? None of it is humane on a ground level. However, it could be argued that those few deaths are necessary for the propogation and sustanance of the Imperium - which, in turn protects many more lives than it destroys.

I'll leave you with this quote from some of my own fluff. It takes place between Tullas, a Space Marine captain & Mihkal, an Inquisitor. Personally, I think it illustrates the good/evil point well.

. As they walked, their talk took many paths. Mihkal pauses in front of a taxidermied Tyranid Hive Tyrant.
“A Hive Tyrant, Lamedon classification. Note the pair of blade-like claws and its distinctive green and gray coloration. It’s a very nice specimen, did you kill it?”
Tullas nodded. “I dealt the final, blow, yes. But I had several Terminators with me. I couldn’t have brought it down on my own.”
If Mihkal agreed with that assessment, he didn’t show it. Instead, he continued to stare at the large alien as if he expected it to move at any moment. “You know, Brother Tulla, the similarities are frightening, are they not?”
“Similarities?”
“Yes, similarities. Between you and this…” Mihkal paused as if searching for the right word “…monster. Like and yet, unlike.” He turned to smile at Tullas.
The Captain glared at the Inquisitor, unsure of what to make of such a heretical remark. Certainly, it was not his place to judge the loyalty of a member of the Ecclisiarchy.
Mihkal looked hard the Captain, searching the depths of his soul. “Hear me, Brother Tullas, and understand my words. You are a genetically engineered killing machine who leads other genetically engineered killing machines from the same seed…the same hive to war to fight for the survival of your species. That thing,” The black-cloaked Inquisitor gestured toward the looming Tyrant, “is nothing more than that and nothing less. What then separates you from being nothing more than an alien beast?” Mihkal allowed himself a sinister smile. “The only thing that separates you from that monster; the only thing that prevents you and every other one of your Astartes-classified inhuman brothers from suffering the same fate as the Tyranids is that you serve the Emperor. And in that use are your preserved. But should your kind ever hesitate in that service or show the slightest signs of treachery, then you will be exterminated like the beasts that you all.”
“I will not deceive you, Tullas, if it were up to me, your species would already be skinned and stuffed next to the other mutant specimens in the halls of the Ordo Hereticus. Your gene-seed mutations don’t make you superhuman, they make you subhuman.”
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
i need an anti eldar tau and ork army soon_j Space Marines Army Lists 6 27 Aug 2010 09:38
Confirmation Bias (Learned about recently) HijiriOni General 40K 26 20 Apr 2010 15:51
Anti Eldar Commander Fireblade Tau 8 12 Sep 2009 06:06
A little anti-Eldar fun... Nuke Tau Army Lists 3 18 May 2007 09:11
Any anti-Eldar tactics? CnadienWargamerW Craftworld Eldar 1 06 Nov 2004 18:55