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How do you pronounce Maccrage?
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Old 11 Jan 2007, 17:36   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you pronounce Maccrage?

I didn't really take that much offense, but you need to understand that even proper English is a bastardization of multiple Germanic and Romance languages, a function of the successive waves of invasion that characterize England's early history. And names are an even greater problem, because they are often poor romanizations of the correct pronuciation. And American English is even worse than that, as it has combined and degraded many parts of the language further through disuse. We can make guesses about pronuciation, but there are many more exceptions and variations than you find in a more insular language like the proper versions of Japanese or Arabic.

So in many cases, the only sure way to find out how something should be pronounced in English is to ask those who live there. With an imaginary place, the best you can do is ask the author.
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Old 11 Jan 2007, 23:45   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you pronounce Maccrage?

Quote:
Aluminium is not a valid comparisson, because the American version is just flat-out wrong.
Wiki 'Aluminum,' and then go to the spelling section, we spell it 'Aluminum', you spell it 'Aluminium', so by the way they are spelled they are both correct. I actually had never heard of the 'Aluminium' spelling... So there!
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Old 12 Jan 2007, 03:17   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you pronounce Maccrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icer, The Holy Influence
Quote:
Aluminium is not a valid comparisson, because the American version is just flat-out wrong.
Wiki &#39;Aluminum,&#39; and then go to the spelling section, we spell it &#39;Aluminum&#39;, you spell it &#39;Aluminium&#39;, so by the way they are spelled they are both correct. I actually had never heard of the &#39;Aluminium&#39; spelling... So there!
I didn&#39;t realise that there was any other way of spelling aluminium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
I do apologise to Khanaris and Shas O Dalyth who do seem to have taken offense.

Quote:
""hey-I-never-thought-about-it-that-way-and-now-that-you-think-about-it-that-does-sound-like-the-way-it-should-be-pronounced" involved. And if it wasn&#39;t spelt the way your common sense seems to lead you, it wouldn&#39;t be the only abnormality in the English Language."
Indeed point taken.

Quote:
"The name of the Ultramarine homeworld is spelled Macragge, not Maccrage as the original post indicated."
Well that cleans up why I thought some of the pronunciations were odd if not stupid. I never checked if it was the correct spelling I assumed it to be.

Still with Macragge I would pronounce it Mak-Cra-guh With a stress on the &#39;A&#39; and with the &#39;guh&#39; sound.

Quote:
"For instance, "Bragge" and "Cragge" are both recognized surnames normally sounding like "brag" and "crag", respectively. With a single consonant, the sound in "rage" is long. With two consonants, as in "ragge", it can sound like "rag" or even "radge". Broken down, it was a two-consonant component voiced like ra-guh, as there were few if any silent characters in Middle English. There is a transition from the Old English Ragg to the Middle English Ragge and then on to the modern Rag. Ragge did not become Rage."
Well I did say I wasn&#39;t an expert, I have never looked at old languages. However I never ignored any levels of English language because "Maccrage" as the question asks doesn&#39;t have a double &#39;gg&#39; You may be referring to the lack of an &#39;e&#39; in my earlier post. But in &#39;Bragge&#39; and &#39;Cragge&#39; The &#39;e&#39; is being used in conjunction with the &#39;g&#39; to create the &#39;guh&#39; sound as you pointed out. In both cases the double consternate is soft, creating a rolling sound rather than being pronounced independently. &#39;ge&#39; makes a sound like the &#39;J&#39; &#39;gge&#39; makes the &#39;guh&#39; sound. Thus rage and ragge, rage pronounces the &#39;J&#39; sound on the end and ragge pronounces a &#39;guh&#39; sound on the end.

Quote:
"Seeing as you have such a large grasp of the language I am sure you could have found some"
Hey, I stated what I though, and I did say it was my opinion.

Sorry for annoying some of you,
Genmotty
I did go over the top a bit, sorry
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Old 14 Jan 2007, 17:56   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you pronounce Maccrage?

sorry about the aluminum sidetrack there, guys, I did some research, and apparently Aluminium is the old world saying, from way back when the element was discovered, and that it has been chaged repeatedly in the oxford and english dictionary over the last 2 centuries or so, and finally was laid to rest as Aluminum around 1820 or so. This is the American version of the word, and some european countries never switched. Whatever, interesting history lesson, eh? (actually, not an interesting bit of history, but its interesting that anybody in the world can get this information immediately through this amazing instant-information thingie we call the Internet!)


"But onTopic I&#39;ve always pronounced Macragge like (phonetic attempt) "Macraahg" (sound it out exactly as its spelled, and no the g and h arent typos)... and everyone Ive said it around never looked at me funny... :P

Words are a neat thing, if you really step back a bit and look at what they really are, and what they are used for: Symbolism. A thousand primitive people in some cave all had to come up with a word for something, and then tell everybody what it was, and everyone added that new word to their list of words in their language. This was a big deal when language came about, as it gave an instant advantage over every other type of walking man-ape thet they were competing with.... information could be passed along without directly seeing it or by learning through example... you could just talk about it, describe it well enough, and the &#39;training&#39; and &#39;new skill&#39; was imparted into the other person virtually.... meaning the other guy didnt have to trial and error it by himself, and that little nugget of information could then be relayed even further... rapidly. MUCH more rapidly that the other man-apes that had to teach their children by example and imitation every time a kid was born... As a result of this information boom, we talking man-apes are the only man-apes left on the planet. (there were about a dozen competing for dominance at one time)

Eventually words came about as text, and now someone doesnt have to talk to you to give the info, instead he has to just write it down once (whew!!).. and so on and so on... to today. Today, we have a bit of language problem, in that this internet and Tau Online Forum for example, is a worldwide international grouping of people... that brings people from Sweden to people in California together, when in actuality they have been separated from each other as a group for several centuries..and the opportunity to talk to each other was cut off, and the languages varies in the meantime. Now, with the Internet bringing everyone next door again, we have little discussions like this, and we suddenly find that WOW, there ARE lots of different ways to say it, depending on where on the planet you grew up!!

THIS conditional is something new, something our parents never even considered, because the World back then was just too darn big for them to ever get that experience (people from England talk this way, people from OZ speak that way, People from India speak this other way.. its all English, sure, but its different a bit). But here WE are, far flung around the planet, speaking entirely different versions of English, and the differences become immediatly apparent. Our parents&#39; experience with this would have been &#39;that foriegn guy&#39; that moved in next door, where HE has to learn OUR language to fit in.. but you see that was different. Things are new and strange nowadays.

A bit further in the future, and the Internet will bridge the gap even further (maybe it does it slready so seamlessly I dont even notice), where no matter who types what language, I will see English translated on the fly instantaneously, and my english will be translated to chinese or whatever teh same way.

A bit further in the future, and we will be talking over the internet, and our speach will be translated on the fly, yet somehow retain our voice modulation, so that you can recognize the persons voice... and it will appear that everyone is talking your language... even though thats not the case. Then we will immediately have a Star Trek Universal Translator in every phone, every TV, Radio and every form of text and video... and we will all be speaking the same language, and will get even closer as a world.

Yeah.. uh.. so, Words are neat. It appears I got a little long winded here, but hopefully you can see that this language and internet thing is really fascinating, and is truly what they call the Information Age... as the next Big Step for humanity:
Stone Age
Iron Age
Dark Age (oops)
Industrial Age (revolution)
Electrical Age (we took for granted)
Information Age.

If you know a bit about the timeline for each, you can see that the advances as a whole are accelerating.. each great changing &#39;Way&#39; coming sooner and sooner from the last. Why, the Electrical Age and Information Age are sepatated by 100 years or so.... where the Stone and Iron Age gap was like 2 million years!
(apparently I wasnt done... : ) This rapid advancement forms a exponential curve, that is already near to vertical here and now.... and eventually the time between &#39;Ages&#39; will be measured in HIOURS, and we as a people and a race will litereally explode into some other form of Humanity that we really can visualize yet (but I can see how computers and computing can facilitate this), both in culture, tecnology, health, space exploration.. whatever. This phenominon is what they call &#39;The Singularity&#39; (because we cant see whats behind it)... and its coming... like a freight train!
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Old 15 Jan 2007, 21:28   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you pronounce Maccrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
A bit further in the future, and we will be talking over the internet, and our speach will be translated on the fly, yet somehow retain our voice modulation, so that you can recognize the persons voice... and it will appear that everyone is talking your language... even though thats not the case. Then we will immediately have a Star Trek Universal Translator in every phone, every TV, Radio and every form of text and video... and we will all be speaking the same language, and will get even closer as a world.

Yeah.. uh.. so, Words are neat. It appears I got a little long winded here, but hopefully you can see that this language and internet thing is really fascinating, and is truly what they call the Information Age... as the next Big Step for humanity:
Stone Age
Iron Age
Dark Age (oops)
Industrial Age (revolution)
Electrical Age (we took for granted)
Information Age.

If you know a bit about the timeline for each, you can see that the advances as a whole are accelerating.. each great changing &#39;Way&#39; coming sooner and sooner from the last. Why, the Electrical Age and Information Age are sepatated by 100 years or so.... where the Stone and Iron Age gap was like 2 million years!
(apparently I wasnt done... Roll Eyes ) This rapid advancement forms a exponential curve, that is already near to vertical here and now.... and eventually the time between &#39;Ages&#39; will be measured in HIOURS, and we as a people and a race will litereally explode into some other form of Humanity that we really can visualize yet (but I can see how computers and computing can facilitate this), both in culture, tecnology, health, space exploration.. whatever. This phenominon is what they call &#39;The Singularity&#39; (because we cant see whats behind it)... and its coming... like a freight train! Smiley
Interesting, however I do fail to see an exponential curve representing technology. Much of what we &#39;invent&#39; today is based on already founded technology. It is a gradual constant progression. I doubt things can speed up much faster without the gap between areas of technology becoming large. e.g. It will come to a point where tech is specialised so improvements = constant in an area, yet overall is an exponential curve. That is if time is constant, but thats another question...

Genmotty
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