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Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)
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Old 09 Apr 2007, 20:44   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

These rules are designed to mesh alongside existing 40k Rulesets. It isn't supposed to be a "different game" but an addition to it. Im not re-inventing the wheel.

But you can finish a game in 40 minutes and have a blast doing it. To everyone who helped playtest it, thank you, to everyone else: Post some comments and batreps!




http://www.savefile.com/files/749515 - May 24th, 2007
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Old 13 Apr 2007, 23:08   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

i like it, one question though: are you only alowed to have 20 models in teh entire army?
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 02:03   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

As a general rule, yes. The last thing you want is it bogged down when someone as a smartass takes 90 grots.

That being said, its a criteria of the game.

You could play a 20 model, 150 pt , 3 upgrade game (as a standard)

Or a 40 model, 150 pt, 6 upgrade game if you choose. The same way you could play a 1000 pt, or 1500 or 2000pt game of 40k.
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 03:08   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

ok cool. i was thinking of doing a 90 grot kinda thing though. oh well.
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dis wunz fer yoo KJ!
"wuts so special 'bout iz 'ead boss?"
"dats were da skull iz ya git! and i'd look pretty silly 'wif iz foot on my pointy stick wouldn't i!"

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Old 15 Apr 2007, 04:38   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

If your opponent is cool with it, no biggy

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Old 15 Apr 2007, 13:25   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

It's cool and all, but I think it needs some minor refinements.

Example: Instant Death and the 'down' chart. Even at this scale Instant Death should be just that, Instant Death.
Proposed Change: If a model is injured by a weapon that has a strength of double or more its toughness and fails its save or is not allowed a save, it is removed automatically as a casualty.

Example: Last Man Standing (okay, so mostly nit-picking) The force, at this scale, should not be prone to last man standing problems. The soldiers know their buddies are nearby, so they aren't alone. Drop this rule otherwise everyone outside 2" of another model will be taking it every turn.
Proposed Change: Remove Last Man Standing tests.

Example: Pinning and diving for cover. Sure, you'd move some distance, but 6" just seems a bit much, especially if you're under fire.
Proposed Change: Either reduce the distance, or specify that the cover must place the pinned model further from the firer than he started.

Example: Frag Grenades. Most races have some kind of equivalent, eg Tau Photon Grenades, 'Nid spinebanks. The rulebook (BGB) actually has a listing in the vehicle on the strength of various grenade types.
Proposed Change: Use that list and treat them as AP -, Assault 1, Blast, Pinning. (pinning is due to the fact that people tend to duck and cover when explosives start flying towards them)

Example: Spray & Pray. This actually gets more effective the closer the enemy is. (play gears of war and blindfire over cover and you'll see ).
Proposed Change: Either have a to hit bonus for this at <12" or +1 shot at <12"

Questions: How do transport vehicle upgrades count towards the upgrade limit?
If you fail the initiative test in the shooting phase while on overwatch, does the 'must target closest enemy' rule still apply?

Random Ideas: What about defining a 'special ops' team for each race that can be chosen and upgraded instead of troops for each race?
Example: Pathfinders for Tau, Rangers/Harlequins for Eldar, Lictors/Ravenors for Tyranids, Hardened Veteran Squads for IG and so on.

Okay, so maybe those suggestions are more than 'minor' refinements.
You can take them or leave them, although the first two make a lot of sense to me. ;D
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 18:58   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
It's cool and all, but I think it needs some minor refinements.

Example: Instant Death and the 'down' chart. Even at this scale Instant Death should be just that, Instant Death.
Proposed Change: If a model is injured by a weapon that has a strength of double or more its toughness and fails its save or is not allowed a save, it is removed automatically as a casualty.
You know, I should probably clarify this as it may be causing confusion. Things that cause instant death specify you are removed outright as a casualty. The Injury chart only applies to those who are removed to Zero wounds. So currently that does happen, but to clear confusion I should add that in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Example: Last Man Standing (okay, so mostly nit-picking) The force, at this scale, should not be prone to last man standing problems. The soldiers know their buddies are nearby, so they aren't alone. Drop this rule otherwise everyone outside 2" of another model will be taking it every turn.
Proposed Change: Remove Last Man Standing tests.
In page 9 under Morale, it specifies that last man standing is only taken if the model is the last man in your entire force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Example: Pinning and diving for cover. Sure, you'd move some distance, but 6" just seems a bit much, especially if you're under fire.
Proposed Change: Either reduce the distance, or specify that the cover must place the pinned model further from the firer than he started.
I used 6 inches since thats your full move (and you miss your move on your next turn), I also don't want to get into cases where a piece of cover is one inch in front of you, the enemy is 48 inches away and you instead race backwards into open ground. But it does make sense as a rule if you wish to institute it into your games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Example: Frag Grenades. Most races have some kind of equivalent, eg Tau Photon Grenades, 'Nid spinebanks. The rulebook (BGB) actually has a listing in the vehicle on the strength of various grenade types.
Proposed Change: Use that list and treat them as AP -, Assault 1, Blast, Pinning. (pinning is due to the fact that people tend to duck and cover when explosives start flying towards them)
Don't forget, ALL weapons can cause pinning in this game, blast weapons are quite good at it. Assault weapons create a whole heap of problems, as barrage you can't move before lobbing a squad of guardsmens grenades then assaulting. Some things, like photon grenades aren't really explosives, and things like spine banks aren't fired like grenades and don't operate the same way in terms of "shooting" them. Spinebanks for instance already give the model spinefists in the shooting phase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Example: Spray & Pray. This actually gets more effective the closer the enemy is. (play gears of war and blindfire over cover and you'll see ).
Proposed Change: Either have a to hit bonus for this at <12" or +1 shot at <12"
I think you are missing something about this :P, if you are within 12 inches you can just rapid fire as normal and hit on your regular BS (which AT LEAST doubles your chances, for some units its four or five times as likely) and if you are within 2" the point blank rule lets you hit on 2+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Questions: How do transport vehicle upgrades count towards the upgrade limit?
If you fail the initiative test in the shooting phase while on overwatch, does the 'must target closest enemy' rule still apply?
Yes they take an upgrade, unless it is Mandatory. Things that are mandatory do not take upgrades. So a Speed Freaks trukk is not an upgrade. A tactical squads Rhino IS an upgrade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Random Ideas: What about defining a 'special ops' team for each race that can be chosen and upgraded instead of troops for each race?
Example: Pathfinders for Tau, Rangers/Harlequins for Eldar, Lictors/Ravenors for Tyranids, Hardened Veteran Squads for IG and so on.

Okay, so maybe those suggestions are more than 'minor' refinements.
You can take them or leave them, although the first two make a lot of sense to me. ;D
Cool Idea, but a little too restrictive and against the scope of the game. Its so that someone who knows 40k can just pick up a Codex and go with existing models.
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 23:43   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Example: Spray & Pray. This actually gets more effective the closer the enemy is. (play gears of war and blindfire over cover and you'll see ).
Proposed Change: Either have a to hit bonus for this at <12" or +1 shot at <12"
I think you are missing something about this :P, if you are within 12 inches you can just rapid fire as normal and hit on your regular BS (which AT LEAST doubles your chances, for some units its four or five times as likely) and if you are within 2" the point blank rule lets you hit on 2+.
Okay, I am missing something there. It was late I wasn't fully thinking about normal BS and to hit rolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Questions: How do transport vehicle upgrades count towards the upgrade limit?
If you fail the initiative test in the shooting phase while on overwatch, does the 'must target closest enemy' rule still apply?
Yes they take an upgrade, unless it is Mandatory. Things that are mandatory do not take upgrades. So a Speed Freaks trukk is not an upgrade. A tactical squads Rhino IS an upgrade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager Zero
Random Ideas: What about defining a 'special ops' team for each race that can be chosen and upgraded instead of troops for each race?
Example: Pathfinders for Tau, Rangers/Harlequins for Eldar, Lictors/Ravenors for Tyranids, Hardened Veteran Squads for IG and so on.

Okay, so maybe those suggestions are more than 'minor' refinements.
You can take them or leave them, although the first two make a lot of sense to me. ;D
Cool Idea, but a little too restrictive and against the scope of the game. Its so that someone who knows 40k can just pick up a Codex and go with existing models.
Okay, thanks for clearing these up. ;D
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Old 17 Apr 2007, 12:53   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

Nice rules you got there. As for my suggestions:

Make the pinning move D6, same as consolidation. Who knows, you might hit the dirt immediately, or come a sprinter. You never know what happens when you get shot at.

For Fall back and regroup, this is something wierd. How is this coming up? You propably won't take casualties of 25% from shooting, you most likely get killed in close combat, and there propably aren't many special items that cause you to fall back. Seems thefall back and regrouping are something the game will not have.

If I may suggest, maybe following: If the model has more enemy models then friendly models within 12", they have to test for LD or fall back. Or maybe 6". Anyway, some conditions for LD tests that are not related to taking casualties, but the conditions of the battlefield.

And more rules about using terrain to your advantage. Otherwise itäs nice.
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Old 20 Apr 2007, 03:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Warhammer 40k: Skirmish size (PDF and Pics)

I'm kinda worried about the balance of this. For guard you've a big problem with that 20 model rule. Even if you take one squad out of the troops choice like you said, some armies will have big problems. Lets take the Guard for example. If we go without upgrades, you have ten soldiers for 60 points. Let's face it. Even in salvos str3 at a guardsmen BS isn't that frightening. Now that I think about it the guard are almost totally getting shafted. At a 150pt game guard would have 20 guardsmen, 4 of them operating autocannons or misisle launchers for example. Lets say we count the squads separately then. That'd put guardsmen at 10 points for ten men. Yes there are only five squads, but I account that last 10 points as part of whatever platoon command squad they have in normal force org.

Now then, I've spent 20 points on my 20 models...Lets see, add everything under the sun...And I still have points left. What to do. Oh, I see now, deal with it or choose another army...

Brilliant.

Without vehicles I can't very well take an armored fist squad, and even if I did, it'd still be that 60 point Guard squad I described above. Heck I don't even have my armor for support.

The only real hope the Guard has is to sit back, not move, and hopes their heavy bolters and auto cannon can keep an enemy pinned long enough for them to decimate the enemy.

I would say use command squads for the guard's basic unit, but even that would be even worse, as you have a mere five men for a bare minimum of 40 points. Sure they might be scary if they all toted flamers or plasma, but with the three upgrade rule, at least two are going to be toting lasguns.

At least let a Guard commander take a Flamer armed Sentinel. Otherwise, against all everyone else I might as well arm them with Demo charges and have them make kamikaze charges.
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