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CODEX: Demiurg
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 10:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default CODEX: Demiurg

In response to the ‘A new race?’ thread I got a whole load of ideas for the Demiurg based on what GW has left out of other races. So I present a mini codex covering a small amount of units and weapons which could comprise a Demiurg force.

I would like to hear your thoughts on these ideas and if you think they are good. Do not presume everything yet as this is only draft one for presentation. I understand this is completey unofficail. I hope my idea of Demiurg fluff is similar to your own.

[size=18pt]CODEX: Demiurg[/size]

Weapon list;
Ion Rifle S 3 AP Nil Assault 3 RNG 24”
Ion Pistol S 3 AP Nil Pistol 3 RNG 12”
Chain Beam Ion Projector S 7 AP 4 Heavy 1 RNG 48”
Vape Orb Projectors S 6 AP 2 Heavy 1 RNG G30
Small blast
Rad Projector S5 AP 3 Assault 1 Flamer
Template

Starburster S 4 AP 4 Heavy 5 RNG 24”

Cutter torch
A very hot torch cutter with 2d6 armour penetration on vehicles in CC. Otherwise treat as Powerfist.

Powerhammer
Like a Powersword. Treat as the same.

Vape Grenades
When assaulting Demiurg Geo-techs may make 1d6 Vape Orb attacks on the squad to be assaulted which hit on a +4. Resulting hits make a S6 AP2 attack to a single enemy model each. Casualties removed before CC takes place.

HQ
Geo-master pts:50
A Geo-master is one of the few leaders in Demiurg sociology. Having lived for many centuries he is a fountain of knowledge. With in depth knowledge of planetlogy and ecosystem development they are masters of planets and solar systems. In combat these masters are powerful in both range and going toe to toe with beasts many times their size, however they generally wish to stay out of these situations as it disrupts their studies.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Geo-master 4 5(4) 3 3 3 4 2 8 +2



Rune Cutter pts:60
A Rune Cutter is well known for their mental abilities. With deep connections the ‘essence’ of the warp. They can make obscene calculations and predictions of the future based on highly advanced mathematics. Almost always found with exploratory crews they are relied on for find the best ways into and out of difficult situations

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Rune Cutter 3 2 3 3 2 5 1 7 +3

Because of their advanced knowledge and calculating brains Rune Cutters have been known to predict the outcome of a fight within out even seeing it. Hence they know exactly what an opponent will do granting them an initiative of 5.

Troops
Geo-techs (Size 4-8) pts: 20 each
Geo-techs are the work crews would go planeside to mine resources or to conduct planetary studies. Each Geo-tech will have spent time on ship reviewing known data to make sure their experiments and observations are accurate and complete. Not known for their combat skills Geo-techs carry strong suppressive weapons with which to see off any hostile opponent.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Geo-tech 2 3/2 3 3 1 3 1 6 +5

Due to differing conditions, a Geo-tech may decide to equip his enviosuit with targeters which increase his BS to 3. This is done at a cost of 4pts. Per model in the squad. If one model upgrades to targeters, all in the squad must.

A Geo-tech is equip with an Ion Rifle as standard. The squad may take Vape Grenades for an additional 20pts for the squad.

Auto-golems (1-3) pts: 80 each
These constructs are often used by Demiurg to cover retreats or to engage in combat actions while Geo-techs remove themselves.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Auto-golem 4 4 5 5 3 2 1 10 +2

Auto-golems are not alive. These constructs are mindless and fearless. Armed with either a Chain Beam Ion Projector or Starburster they can strike equally hard in CC or at range. Not only that they have been described as indestructible, taking huge amounts of firepower to bring down.

Fast Attack
Scout Runners (size 1-3) pts: 25 each
These Geo-techs act as forward scouts to a Geo-tech exploratory team. Often far away from the main experiment they provide early warning and deter or decoy enemies away from the main party.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Scout Runner 2 3/2 3 3(4) 1 3 1 6 +5

A Scout Runner jet bike is equip with a Rad Projector and the scouts may be equip with a Ion Pistol and CC weapon for 5pts. Rather than an Ion Rifle.

Geo-survey Barge pts: 60
When planeside Geo-techs need a mobile platform for orbital uplink and data collection. Over the centuries they have found that arming this simple vessel increases survey team survival rate.

Front Side Rear BS
Geo-survey Barge 10 10 10 2

A Geo-survey Barge is a fast vehicle and so can travel up to 24” a turn. It is equip with two sponson guns which can be either a Chain Beam Ion Projector or
Vape Orb Projector. Only guns of the same type may be taken and they are not twin linked and fire separately.

Heavy Support
Geo-enforcers (size 1-3 per force org. slot)
When heavy firepower is needed the Demiurg rely on these soldiers to protect their survey teams.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Geo-enforcer 2 3/2 3 3 1 3 1 6 +5

A Geo-enforcer may choose from a Starburster (20 Pts), Vape Orb Projectors (16 Pts) or a Chain Beam Ion Projector (16 Pts).

Each Geo-enforcer is a separate unit in its own right and is an independent character. They don’t have to be deployed together and can join a unit just like a normal independent character.

All Geo-enforcers have the slow and purposeful rule, due to a machine exoskeleton which supports the weapon.

Genmotty
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 11:24   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Weapon list;
Ion Rifle S 3 AP Nil Assault 3 RNG 24”
Ion Pistol S 3 AP Nil Pistol 3 RNG 12”
Chain Beam Ion Projector S 7 AP 4 Heavy 1 RNG 48”
Vape Orb Projectors S 6 AP 2 Heavy 1 RNG G30
Small blast
Rad Projector S5 AP 3 Assault 1 Flamer
Template

Starburster S 4 AP 4 Heavy 5 RNG 24”

Cutter torch A very hot torch cutter with 2d6 armour penetration on vehicles in CC. Otherwise treat as Powerfist.

Powerhammer Like a Powersword. Treat as the same.

Vape Grenades When assaulting Demiurg Geo-techs may make 1d6 Vape Orb attacks on the squad to be assaulted which hit on a +4. Resulting hits make a S6 AP2 attack to a single enemy model each. Casualties removed before CC takes place.


While these weapons are quite true to what little is known of Demiurg fluff, some of them just don't seem right.
My take on the weapons would be more like this:

Ion Rifle S 3 AP 5 Assault 2 RNG 24”
Ion Pistol S 3 AP 5 Pistol RNG 12”
Ion weapons should be at least as powerful as hellguns, and would probably be comparable in terms of power drain and rate of fire.

Chain Beam Ion Projector S 7 AP 3 Heavy 3 RNG 48”
Go the whole hog and make this a short-barreled Ion Cannon. (That's really what it wants to be)

Vape Orbs just seem a bit too weird, maybe they could count as plasma grenades, but throwable too (S5 AP5, small blast)

Rad Projector S5 AP 3 Assault 1 Template, may be used as a power weapon in close combat
Seems similar to the Chaos Ether Lance.

Starburster S 4 AP 4 Heavy 5 RNG 24”
What is this meant to be, some big-D'yi multi-barrel cannon? If so you might consider Rending, making it the ancestor of the Tau CIB

Cutter torch: Treated as a chainfist with an integrated Melta-Pistol (6" S8 AP1 Melta). It may fire and still be used to fight in close combat in the same turn.

Powerhammer: Thunder Hammer capable of projecting an Ion Beam. May be used as an Ion rifle in the shooting phase.

And an example on how tidy up the profiles.

HQ
0-1 Brotherhood Patriarch pts:50
A Brotherhood Patriarch will invariably be the oldest, wisest, most powerful leader from the brotherhood he originates from, and thus there can only be one per army. He is capable of taking on almost any enemy and winning. His knowledge extends back over millenia and his memory structure ensures he never forget anything, from the tale of creation to the name of the newest member of his brotherhood. Taking with him to battle an esoteric array of ancient weapons, he is not to be trifled with.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Geo-master 4 5(4) 3 3 3 4 2 9 2+

May take a single Handed and a Two Handed Weapon.
Single Handed
Ion Pistol..............8 pts
Rad Projector......15 pts
Power Hammer...20 pts
Two Handed
Ion Rifle..............12 pts
Starburster.........35 pts
Cutter Torch.......25 pts (May not take any other weapons, it just too big)

Forge Master pts:60
A Forge Master is well known for his mental abilities. With deep connections the ‘essence’ of the warp. They can make obscene calculations and predictions of the future based on highly advanced mathematics. Almost always found with exploratory crews they are relied on for find the best ways into and out of difficult situations. In times of peace they call upon these warp based skills to forge items of incredible beauty and complexity, as well as weapons and armour.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Forge Master 3 2 3 3 2 4(5) 1 8 3+

Because of their advanced knowledge and calculating brains Forge Masters have been known to predict the outcome of a fight within out even seeing it. Hence they know exactly what an opponent will do granting them an initiative of 5.

A Forge Master is always Armed with a Cutting Torch.
He replace it for a Power Hammer and Rad Projector at +10 points.

A Forge Master is a psyker, and may take a single power from those listed:
Hammer of the Ancients: +15 points
No psychic test required. Treated as a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range: 24" S 3 AP 4 Assault 2 Pinning
Alternately, he may take a psychic test and use this profile for the attack:
Range: 18" S 5 AP 2 Assault 1, Large Blast, Pinning
Keeper of thy Brother: +20 points
If the Forge Master can pass a psychic test every unit with a model within 6" of him counts as Stubborn until the start of the Demiurg player's next turn.
The Ever-burning Forge +30 points
This is a both a shooting and close combat power. The Forge Master counts as having a Melta-Gun and Force Weapon, no matter what he is actually carrying, but must pass a psychic test to use either one. He may still use his normal equipment if he fails the psychic test/doesn't want to change weapons. (It's not a true force weapon, but the immense heat is enough to turn anything it wounds to cinders in an instant)(and yes, the Avatar of Khaine would be immune to this, tough luck)

and now it's very late and my eyes won't focus. Sorry in advance if this is kind of hi-jacking, I just had to get these ideas out of my head.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 12:21   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Nice, it seems you think I overpowered the weapons? and the ideas you came up with are just as good. I was going to think up CC weapons later, but they seem as good as any.

Quote:
Ion Rifle S 3 AP 5 Assault 2 RNG 24”
Ion Pistol S 3 AP 5 Pistol RNG 12”
Ion weapons should be at least as powerful as hellguns, and would probably be comparable in terms of power drain and rate of fire.
I made Ion weapons weak on AP because Ion beams don't kill much thats got any physical strengh, thus even weak armour stops it. Anyhow thats something that can change very easily, I'll let others decide what they think is best before revising.

Quote:
Chain Beam Ion Projector S 7 AP 3 Heavy 3 RNG 48”
Go the whole hog and make this a short-barreled Ion Cannon. (That's really what it wants to be)
Heavy 3? Ok, I'll accept this for the moment, I was concerned of overpowering it.

Quote:
Vape Orbs just seem a bit too weird, maybe they could count as plasma grenades, but throwable too (S5 AP5, small blast)
Weird is good! Something completely new to 40k. You've clumped two things together here.

Fluff
Vape weapons utilise space-time to create momentary black holes in realspace. These rip apart matter in a small area of realspace causing it to never exist in the first place. Originally developed for mining purposes. It makes an excellent weapon due to no need of LOS as the hole can be created anywhere at anytime. However due to the nature of the weapon its is not precisely accurate as it still reality's on having an opperator program in the location of the hole. On the battlefield where things happen fast this creates a time lag, causing scattering. Hence G30

Vape Grenades at on location obliterating roughly the space of a football. They basically give Geo-techs the ability to even the odds in CC.

Quote:
Rad Projector S5 AP 3 Assault 1 Template, may be used as a power weapon in close combat
Seems similar to the Chaos Ether Lance.
Similar, But I wanted a new weapon and not a CC weapon. I like flamers, but quite simply they aren't very powerful hence I wished to give more bang for your buck.

Quote:
Starburster S 4 AP 4 Heavy 5 RNG 24”
What is this meant to be, some big-D'yi multi-barrel cannon? If so you might consider Rending, making it the ancestor of the Tau CIB

Cutter torch: Treated as a chainfist with an integrated Melta-Pistol (6" S8 AP1 Melta). It may fire and still be used to fight in close combat in the same turn.
Fluff for Starburster
The Starburster is a micro mortar fitted to the back of Geo-enforcers. It spews plasma droplets skywards which fall onto the target through the use of automated target prediction systems built into the weapon. The rain of suppression fire makes it very hard for an attacker to counter as they must look forward and above. It should be pinning as well then I guess :-\

No I don't think another big chaingun weapon is needed, hence no gattling stuff or machineguns.

Yeah the cutter torch sounds good. Replacement to my idea.

Nice stuff,
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 16:36   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeStar
Isnt this in the wrong place? I mean shouldnt it be in the minor race board?
Yeah it is really, but because the discussion started here is it not best to keep it here? If a mod feels it needs to be moved, please do.

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Old 04 Mar 2007, 18:22   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

My eyes are practically bleeding... use the formatting tables in House Rules so it's legible, and I'll be happy to give some actuall input.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 20:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Thanks Dra'Tuisich-Novae! God, thats the way to get it done. If I had of know of those codes before...

Ok Time to make everything ledable. I'll start by reposting the weapons and we can discuss these until we reach somekind of consensus. I'll make a couple of changes to my original list while at this.

Weapons

Ion Rifle
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]24"[/td][td]Nil[/td][td]Assault 2[/td][/tr][/table]


Demiurg Ion rifles are highly advanced weapons firing a stream of charged ions at the target. Capable of burning flesh away in seconds they are very effective. Lacking any real need to aim gives Demiurg Geo-techs a huge advantage in combat as the weapon simply has to be pointed at the target and the beam density dial adjusted for the particular focus.


Ion Pistol
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]12"[/td][td]Nil[/td][td]Pistol[/td][/tr][/table]


Ion pistols use the same technology as rifles but on a smaller scale. Genrally wielded by higher standing Demiurg they are rare on the battlefield due to the requirement of a backpack charger like their heavy breathering the Ion rifle.


Chain Beam Ion Projector
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7[/td][td]48"[/td][td]3[/td][td]Heavy 3[/td][/tr][/table]


Chain Bean Ion Projectors are the forerunners and more advanced version of the Tau Ion Cannon. Running off a compound charger even a normal sized Demiurg can carry this powerful weapon into battle. It is used in both an anti-tank role and anti-heavy infantry role.



Vape Orb Projector

[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]G30"[/td][td]2[/td][td]Heavy 1, small blast radius[/td][/tr][/table]


Vape weapons utilise space-time to create momentary black holes in realspace. These rip apart matter in a small area of realspace causing it to never exist in the first place. Originally developed for mining purposes. It makes an excellent weapon due to no need of LOS as the hole can be created anywhere at anytime. However due to the nature of the weapon its is not precisely accurate as it still reality's on having an opperator program in the location of the hole. On the battlefield where things happen fast this creates a time lag, causing scattering.



Starburster

[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]24"[/td][td]4[/td][td]Heavy 5, pinning, ignores cover saves[/td][/tr][/table]


The Starburster is a micro mortar fitted to the back of Geo-enforcers. It spews plasma droplets skywards which fall onto the target through the use of automated target prediction systems built into the weapon. The rain of suppression fire makes it very hard for an attacker to counter as they must look forward and above.



Rad Projector

[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]Flamer template[/td][td]3[/td][td]Assault 1[/td][/tr][/table]


A rad projector fires a stream of radioactive debris and gamma radiation over a short distance. Very effective at irradiating lifeforms it has been used as a 'sterilising' agent against ork hordes in the past. It seems that Rad Projectors are liberally used by Demuirg for creating exclusion zones around digs or study sites. I assault a Geo-enforcer can take down a large number of foes, without ever having to weld his hammer.


There, let's discuss these for the moment. Writting in HTML is difficult.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 22:05   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Don't you think Geo-Techs would be a little underpowered? I mean, 80 points for a squad of 4 guys that would all likely die in a single Tau shooting phase to a single squad of fire warriors ... And 160 for a full squad of 8? What are they doing to warrant this - the assult 3 lasgun? I'm just not buying it, not to mention 8-man squads with 5+ saves are going to bite it turn 1 to half the armies in 40k, not just Tau.

I think you need a revamp here ...
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Old 05 Mar 2007, 18:28   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Do I? Geo-techs are not designed to be out and out combat units and they do pack power in number of shots plus they can fire and move making them rather powerful in genral terms. Finally they act as extra wounds for the heavy support choices which act as the main firepower in the army. So they may be poor, but they work in combination. Plus high cost = few troops on battlefield fluffy and pushes people to take other choices rather than a forward into CC line.

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Old 13 Mar 2007, 20:19   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Hmm... Can the Demiurg from THIS codex be put into Tau armies?
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 22:41   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: CODEX: Demiurg

Well considering its still work in progress. I'm sure I can finally set it out similar to Kroot Mercs with the Tau being able to take a 'contingant'. Of Demiurg.

Considering that no one else has voiced their opinions on weapons I will consider that they are balanced and implement changes based on others opinions.

Now for the units;

HQ
To emphasis the 'elite' status of the Demiurg I feel the choice of two diffrent commanders is appropriate. I will also include a small armory with the HQ units. Thanks should be due to Ravager Zero for his input into names and possible equipment.

0-1 Brotherhood Patriarch pts:50
A Brotherhood Patriarch will invariably be the oldest, wisest, most powerful leader from the brotherhood he originates from, and thus there can only be one per army. He is capable of taking on almost any enemy and winning. His knowledge extends back over millenia and his memory structure ensures he never forget anything, from the tale of creation to the name of the newest member of his brotherhood. Taking with him to battle an esoteric array of ancient weapons, he is not to be trifled with.

[table][tr][td] [/td][td]Cost[/td][td]Ws[/td][td]Bs[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Unit[/td][td]50pts[/td][td]4[/td][td]5(4)[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][td]2+[/td][/tr][/table]


Independent Character
: Brotherhood Patriarch's are completely independent on missions into the field and always maintain independent character status. They may not join other squads.

Specail Equipment: Brotherhood Patriarchs often wear more advanced envirosuits to standard Geo-techs. These are automactically equip with targeters and are much more heavily armoured granting the bonus to BS and 2+ save. Because of the suits nature its targets do not conflict with other equipment. However it is already consider to have targeters and so may not select that option again from the armoury.

A Brotherhood Patriarch must select a hand-to-hand weapon and ion pistol from the list below, pistol is considered part of the unit and is automatically granted at no extra cost;

Cutter Torch.......25 pts
Powerhammer....12 pts
Radsword...........12 pts

Special Rules: A Brotherhood Patriarch may select up to but not exceeding 50pts of extra equipment from the item armoury.

[hr]

0-2 Forge Master pts:60
A Forge Master is well known for his mental abilities. With deep connections the ‘essence’ of the warp. They can make obscene calculations and predictions of the future based on highly advanced mathematics. Almost always found with exploratory crews they are relied on for find the best ways into and out of difficult situations. In times of peace they call upon these warp based skills to forge items of incredible beauty and complexity, as well as weapons and armour.


[table][tr][td] [/td][td]Cost[/td][td]Ws[/td][td]Bs[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Unit[/td][td]60pts[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]1[/td][td]8[/td][td]4+[/td][/tr][/table]

Independent Character: A Forge Master is an Independent Character when not attached to a squad.

Specail Equipment: A Forge Master is always Armed with a Cutter Torch. A Forge Master may select up to but not exceeding 50pts of extra equipment from the item armoury.

Special rules: A Forge Master is a psyker, and may take a single power from those listed:
Hammer of the Ancients: +15 points
No psychic test required. Treated as a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range: 24" S 3 AP 4 Assault 2 Pinning
Alternately, he may take a psychic test and use this profile for the attack:
Range: 18" S 5 AP 2 Assault 1, Large Blast, Pinning
Keeper of thy Brother: +20 points
If the Forge Master can pass a psychic test every unit with a model within 6" of him counts as Stubborn until the start of the Demiurg player's next turn.

[hr]

Armoury:
Cutter Torch.......25 pts
Treated as a chainfist with an integrated Melta-Pistol (6" S8 AP1 Melta). It may fire and still be used to fight in close combat in the same turn.

Powerhammer....16 pts
Treated as a powersword but adds +1 to the welders strenght value.

Radsword...........12 pts
Radswords automatically ignore all normal armour saves, otherwise it is the same as a chainsword. However the user may only ever make one close combat attack with this weapon even if he has the opportunity to make more than one attack.

Targeters............5pts
Any model equip with targeters may increase their BS by +1. Note this upgrade may only be bought once and conflicts with Shaders, Target Prioritisers and Secondary Support systems.


Shaders..............4pts

This HUD unit improves the models night fighting abilities allowing the model to re-roll spotting distance at night. The model may only do this once per turn. Note this upgrade may only be bought once and conflicts with Targeters, Target Prioritisers and Secondary Support Systems.

Target Prioritisers...4pts
This system allows a model in a squad to target a separate unit to the rest of the squad much like a Tau Target Lock. Note this upgrade may only be bought once and conflicts with Targeters, Shaders and Secondary Support Systems.

Secondary Support Systems...8pts
With clever manipulation of the wearers metabolism these complex systems can allow a unit to ignore pain. Unit gains the 'feel no pain' specail rule and 1+ wound. Note this upgrade may only be bought once and conflicts with Targeters, Shaders and Target Prioritisers.


Holo field.....5pts

The wearer gains a holographic projection of himself making the real him difficult to target. The model may ask for a single shooting attack be re-rolled once a turn.

Forcefield Projection Equipment....20pts
This contraption carried projects a forcefield around the model in the general area. Place a small blast marker over the model to determin the area covered by the field any model covered or partially covered gain the effects of the field. The field grants a +2 invariable save.

Vape Grenades....2pts
When assaulting Demiurg may make a Vape Orb attack on the squad to be assaulted which hit on a +4. Resulting hits make a S6 AP2 attack to a single enemy model each. Casualties removed before CC takes place.

[hr]

What you think? I can see Brotherhood Patriarchs being VERY strong.
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