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Points for Tempest please help
View Poll Results: Points for this tank?
250 0 0%
275 1 11.11%
300 1 11.11%
325 0 0%
350 1 11.11%
375 0 0%
400 4 44.44%
425 2 22.22%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03 Mar 2007, 03:39   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Points for Tempest please help

OK Tempest tank

Counts as Heavy and may mount Elite squad only in it

Carries 10 troops Armor 14/14/14* * BS4

Twinlinked Heavy Pulse laser:* range 60"....Str 8.... AP1....Heavy2 lance
Twinlinked Shuriken Cannon: as per codex
6 Avenger Catapults: as per codex
Holo Field .....

Options: Vectored engines +20 points, Star engines +15 points, and Spirit stones at +10 points

I was thinking Land raider was 250 but this has slightly more firepower (but only at 18" and under but it is a skimmer with a Field +100ish points) I was thinking 350

and as for the WHY.. i have 2 old armorcast Super Heavy Tempest models.... anything less then 14 would not be traditional and didnt want a Super heavy .... if im gonna do that ill take my titan.
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Old 03 Mar 2007, 05:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

I may not be the best of judging, but WHY?? That thing's as armored as a monolith and can reach anything on the battlefield(about).

Anywho, I voted 400.

AV14 on all sides, carries upto 10 troops, BS 4, big gun, quite a few smaller guns, a field(assume something like a Stealth Field). Assuming a Warfish is about 120pts. with a Hammerhead being about 160pts. And an Ionhead if I'm right about those stats, so about 400ish points.
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Old 03 Mar 2007, 07:28   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

is it a skimmer? if so then i can't really think of a fair price as that thing becomes... rediculous! as for av 14 all around...

i would like to see a pic tho... sounds like an interesting model!
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 00:05   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

First rule of the Eldar, kid...

NEVER HAVE ARMOUR HIGHER THAN 12! EVER!
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 05:47   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

Never higher than 12? says who ..... how long have you played??.. apparently not very long. The wave serpent in 3rd edition was armor 14/14/12... and the Original armor on the Super Heavy Tempest (2nd edition) was 24 back then Even the mighty land raiders best armor was 22..... so a 24 then would be about a 15 now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
First rule of the Eldar, kid...

NEVER HAVE ARMOUR HIGHER THAN 12! EVER!
Ive been Playing Eldar for about 13 years so plz don't tell me about MY army and what they use.. Apparently you haven't been playing as long, so if you would like to tell me about something you have more expertice about feel free, for example I'd love to hear an in depth insight on barney, Fingerpaints or oversized crayons. But as far as the Eldar go I think I got it thnx. Right now I'm just looking for a general consensus on what players think a good point cost should be...... ...
.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HailTheRuss
is it a skimmer? if so then i can't really think of a fair price as that thing becomes... rediculous! as for av 14 all around...

i would like to see a pic tho... sounds like an interesting model!
Yea your right maybe ill make it a SLOW skimmer. It has range so 6" would be fine and make it: if it moves 12" it cant fire.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 06:33   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

With armor 14 and a holofield on a skimmer, and those weapons, and in an Eldar army, I would say on the order of about 600-700 points. It is not possible to balance that under the current ruleset unless it costs several times as much as a Land Raider.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 11:35   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

In third edition, only the transition rules in the BBB had the wave serpent with AV 14/14/12, and that was only because it had the energy field. It was normally AV 12/12/10.

Then the Eldar Codex for third ed. came out, and the wave serpent was 12/12/10, with an energy field that reduced the strength of all weapons over 8 to 8. The reason Eldar don't do AV13/14 is that their lances make it redundant.

So, take the armour down to 12/12/10 and I'll say 275, otherwise 600+ as it's more of a bloody war machine.
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Old 04 Mar 2007, 20:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyster
Never higher than 12? says who ..... how long have you played??.. apparently not very long. The wave serpent in 3rd edition was armor 14/14/12... and the Original armor on the Super Heavy Tempest (2nd edition) was 24 back then Even the mighty land raiders best armor was 22..... so a 24 then would be about a 15 now
I've played since early 3rd... I know all too well that Wave Serpents were AV 14 in the BBB. However, let's consider your arguments...

1) Using 2nd Edition rules is invalid. 2nd Edition is completely different to 4th.

2) Using the 3rd Edition BBB lists is invalid. They were "get you by" lists. Should Eldar use Lascannons because the BBB says they do? No. The Wave Serpents rules were made solely because they needed a stop-gap.

The designers themselves back when the 3rd Edition Eldar Codex said they didn't want anything with an AV higher than 12 in the Eldar list... I mean, what's the point of having higher when Bright / Dark lances just knock it right back down to 12 anyway?

This "rule of 12" is a fundamental mechanic of Eldar vehicles. Going against it shows total disregard both for existing Eldar material (which you should be looking to compliment) and the intentions of those who made the Eldar in the first place.


Finally, I'd like to point out you're somewhat wasting your time to begin with; the Tempest is the name given by ignorant Mon-keigh to Scorpion Super-Heavy tanks built under a different artistic design. If you don't believe me, feel free to consult Epic: Swordwind; their appendix states as much.


So, if you really want to field your "Tempests", you might want to go to the Forgeworld Website and start using the official rules for them!
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 14:59   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
First rule of the Eldar, kid...

NEVER HAVE ARMOUR HIGHER THAN 12! EVER!
Wow, for once I agree with Wargamer.

Having an Armour 14 skimmer is absurd.

Having a skimmer with rear armour 14 is shockingly terrifying.

Having a skimmer with armour 14 and a holo-field breaks so many game mechanics I actually can't think of any way to describe it.

Plain and simple I would never play someone wishing to use those rules, they just don't make any sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer

So, if you really want to field your "Tempests", you might want to go to the Forgeworld Website and start using the official rules for them!
Once again I'm actually forced to agree with Wargamer. If there's already forge world rules for it use them.

If not VDR it. It might be a little pricier than it deserves, but that's the price you pay for customization.
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 16:54   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Points for Tempest please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
1) Using 2nd Edition rules is invalid. 2nd Edition is completely different to 4th.
I played with the original Armorcast Wave Serpent back in 2nd Edition. It had this funny little paper template that you cut out and stood up in front of it. This template was completely impervious to incoming fire. And the Wave Serpent could project it forward like a ranged attack, scattering any infantry in front of it like a snowplow. It was fun, but a little silly.
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